Angband.oook.cz
Angband.oook.cz
AboutVariantsLadderForumCompetitionComicScreenshotsFunniesLinks

Go Back   Angband Forums > Angband > Vanilla

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old October 20, 2017, 22:17   #61
Diogenes
Scout
 
Diogenes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: the Netherlands
Age: 49
Posts: 36
Diogenes is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
That's no excuse for being rude.
He wasn't, at least not in my view. He said he hated the change and that it was a major stuff-up. As feelings go and since it's a game, the languge is a bit strong, but to call it "rude"? I beg to differ.

Quote:
In this case, the best thing to do would be to share precisely why you find the new ID system distasteful, and what specifically it does worse than the old system.
I find it distasteful because you can no longer learn the properties of scrolls and potions by using identify spells.

Quote:
Incidentally, any analogy to US politics is pretty blatant rage-bait, and I don't think it's appropriate for this thread.
I was merely refuting your "Many people have thought very long about it and therefore it must be excellent" sarcasm. (And can't really be bothered whether you find it inappropriate or not).


Anyway, we're not going to reach an agreement about this. I don't like the new version, will stick to an older one, you like it. Very well.

Have fun, and many winners.
__________________
Anyone seen my Longsword (4d5)?

Last edited by Nick; October 20, 2017 at 22:29. Reason: bracket
Diogenes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 20, 2017, 23:06   #62
AnonymousHero
Veteran
 
AnonymousHero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,356
AnonymousHero is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diogenes View Post
...
(Quoting is basically broken on this forum, hence "...". Apologies.)

I'm not one to to do this lightly, but are you sock-putteting? OP can surely speak for themselves?

(Disclosure: I'm in the process of completely removing Identify from ToME 2.3.x+. It's an absurd amount of code for almost no gain. It's truly ridiculous.)

EDIT: I should say: All the objections to "easier ID", I've seen so far, all amount to "I don't like it". That's fine, but if you can explain how ID improves the game (or how it can be modified to), then I'm all ears.
AnonymousHero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 20, 2017, 23:20   #63
Pete Mack
Prophet
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 4,829
Donated: $40
Pete Mack is on a distinguished road
Diogenes doesn't like ID-by-use of consumables. (Who knows what OP thinks, as he just says 'it sucks'.) I'm a bit surprised, since ID of consumables is by far the easiest under current gameplay. ID of curses is the nastiest. There are so many, and some are lethal if you leave identification too late. Other than curses, the only problematic case is Free Action. There are only a limited number of safe ways to ID it by use. Everything else is pretty smooth that way. (That said, I feel See Invisible in particular should be obvious, as it's a direct change in perception like searching and infravision.)
Pete Mack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 20, 2017, 23:54   #64
Nick
Vanilla maintainer
 
Nick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Canberra, Australia
Age: 53
Posts: 7,141
Donated: $60
Nick is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Mack View Post
(That said, I feel See Invisible in particular should be obvious, as it's a direct change in perception like searching and infravision.)
I think it's learned on wield (at least, it's meant to be).
__________________
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.
Nick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 21, 2017, 12:46   #65
Diogenes
Scout
 
Diogenes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: the Netherlands
Age: 49
Posts: 36
Diogenes is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnonymousHero View Post
(Quoting is basically broken on this forum, hence "...". Apologies.)

I'm not one to to do this lightly, but are you sock-putteting? OP can surely speak for themselves?
Most probably OP can speak for himself. I just wasn't aware he had the monopoly on replying on the subject of ID-ing.

By the way: In any sentence that contains the word "but", you can leave all words beore the word "but" away without losing conent.

Quote:
(Disclosure: I'm in the process of completely removing Identify from ToME 2.3.x+. It's an absurd amount of code for almost no gain. It's truly ridiculous.)
Thanks for the warning. I'll refrain from playing that variant.

Quote:
EDIT: I should say: All the objections to "easier ID", I've seen so far, all amount to "I don't like it".
You are spot on!

Quote:
That's fine, but if you can explain how ID improves the game (or how it can be modified to), then I'm all ears.
I think you are trolling me. I'll take the bait and explain: ID improves the game by telling the player which scroll / potion / etc he or she has found instead of having to find out by trial-and-error.
__________________
Anyone seen my Longsword (4d5)?
Diogenes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 21, 2017, 15:00   #66
EpicMan
Swordsman
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Dallas, Texas, USA
Posts: 336
EpicMan is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diogenes View Post
I think you are trolling me. I'll take the bait and explain: ID improves the game by telling the player which scroll / potion / etc he or she has found instead of having to find out by trial-and-error.
He's not trolling you, he is asking why you think the need to ID any item in the game adds value. As in, would the game be better with no ID minigame, all items known at the start.

AnonymousHero, I am very much looking forward to trying post-ID TOME2.
EpicMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 21, 2017, 15:19   #67
Derakon
Prophet
 
Derakon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 8,421
Derakon is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicMan View Post
He's not trolling you, he is asking why you think the need to ID any item in the game adds value. As in, would the game be better with no ID minigame, all items known at the start.
Yep. I've played the game (back in the 3.x days) with all items ID'd from the start, and felt that such a change was a net positive for the game. I haven't pushed that stance very hard here because it was so radical compared to the status quo.
Derakon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 21, 2017, 17:47   #68
AnonymousHero
Veteran
 
AnonymousHero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,356
AnonymousHero is on a distinguished road
Indeed, I promise that I'm not reverse-trolling or anything of the sort .

Actually the main obstacles to removing ID entirely from T2 are actually "trivial" but important things: The princess offers should not be identified and the @ should not be able to just (l)ook at things and instantly identify them fully from a distance. (Flavors, yes, no problem. I just feel it's a bit too much to be able to identify plusses, etc. from a distance. Maybe I'm wrong. It'll have to depend on playtesting. My current WIP just auto-*ID*s anything you step on -- which seems to work quite well in practice.)
AnonymousHero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 21, 2017, 17:49   #69
Pete Mack
Prophet
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 4,829
Donated: $40
Pete Mack is on a distinguished road
@Derakon--I didn't actually like the "everything known in advance" mechanic. I think ID now is pretty good, except for potions and scrolls--which ID on use even without effect. (Suggestion: make cure poison available in the temple like boldness, so kobolds can ID it. Or simply remove the potion from the game, since no-one ever carries it at all.) But give significant experience for ID-by-use only (not with the spell.)
Pete Mack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 21, 2017, 21:14   #70
tprice
Apprentice
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Chicago
Posts: 99
tprice is on a distinguished road
The more I play 4.1 the more I'm liking Rune ID. After the first bit of the dungeon where i was having to ID Runes by use, but that was usually fairly simple, I was usually finding enough ?ID to understand the oddball Runes i ran across. And since you already know what all the powers are for something once you step on it, the usual chore of sorting out all the loot after a big fight or in a vault is MUCH less tedious, especially for my HT Fighter who would normally be having a horrid time with it from my experience in earlier versions!

On the Potion/Rod/Scroll/Staff/Wand side of things i found the ID by Use vaguely annoying but usually figured things out quickly enough by trying on random monsters or carting it back to town to sell. I think i only had to buy 1 thing back but I've had plenty of money most of the time so it wasn't a problem.

Thomas Price
aka The Bookworm
tprice is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Did # of blows for priests get nerfed in 3.5? Ingwe Ingweron Vanilla 3 May 26, 2014 13:21
flasks of oil are nerfed saarn v4 3 April 29, 2012 23:41
Playing with nerfed archery, missile rebalance fizzix AAR 93 July 9, 2010 19:08
Identify by use Ghen Vanilla 39 August 25, 2009 15:41
Nightlies: Identify and a new way of looking at *Identify* nobody Vanilla 4 December 29, 2007 00:44


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 20:23.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.