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Old January 4, 2015, 13:40   #1
Tibarius
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ability information, angband 3.5.1

A quick question to character generation in 3.5.1. Can any coder please confirm, that the Information in the ability table (which is available in the online help and which is identical to the Information on the Generation Screen) is wrong?

a human ranger starts with 19 to hit on melee and 25 to hit on shoot
a high-elf ranger starts with 23 to hit on melee and 33 to hit on shoot
that makes a difference of +4/+8

the help file (and the Generation Screen) say +10/+25

2. weapon Inspect Information

my new fresh character has bought a main gauche (1d5) (+8,+1) in the shop
inspecting the weapon says:
1 have 1.0 blows per round (which i consider correct)
it also says that i have an average damage of 4.2 per round. How Comes that?

1d5=average 3 + 1 todam Bonus makes 4.0 not 4.2 ???

Last edited by Tibarius; January 4, 2015 at 13:46.
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Old January 4, 2015, 14:12   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tibarius View Post
A quick question to character generation in 3.5.1. Can any coder please confirm, that the Information in the ability table (which is available in the online help and which is identical to the Information on the Generation Screen) is wrong?

a human ranger starts with 19 to hit on melee and 25 to hit on shoot
a high-elf ranger starts with 23 to hit on melee and 33 to hit on shoot
that makes a difference of +4/+8

the help file (and the Generation Screen) say +10/+25
Are you sure this isn't just due to bonuses/maluses from DEX?
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Old January 4, 2015, 15:44   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tibarius View Post
2. weapon Inspect Information

my new fresh character has bought a main gauche (1d5) (+8,+1) in the shop
inspecting the weapon says:
1 have 1.0 blows per round (which i consider correct)
it also says that i have an average damage of 4.2 per round. How Comes that?

1d5=average 3 + 1 todam Bonus makes 4.0 not 4.2 ???
The 'I'nspect screen's damage info takes critical hits into account. On average, you get .2 extra damage from crits, apparently.
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Old January 4, 2015, 16:34   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tibarius View Post
A quick question to character generation in 3.5.1. Can any coder please confirm, that the Information in the ability table (which is available in the online help and which is identical to the Information on the Generation Screen) is wrong?

a human ranger starts with 19 to hit on melee and 25 to hit on shoot
a high-elf ranger starts with 23 to hit on melee and 33 to hit on shoot
that makes a difference of +4/+8

the help file (and the Generation Screen) say +10/+25
When you say 'ability table', what do you mean? Do you mean the combat information on the character sheet?
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Old January 4, 2015, 18:04   #5
Tibarius
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hit/shoot/throw bonus

1. Thanks Derakon for the Explanation of the Inspect functionality.

2. There are 3 sources all telling the same:

a) the help file birth.txt if i use "?" in game and read section (B) character
Generation till the "Ability Tables" are displayed.
b) The HTML Manual under section 2.7
c) the PDF Manual under section 2.7

All three sources say:
human race has Bonus of +0/+0 for Fight/Bows
high elf race has Bonus of +10/+25 for Fight/Bows

And the character Generation Screen Shows for These two races
human: Hit/Shoot/Throw: +0/+0/+0
high-elf: Hit/Shoot/Throw: +10/+25/+25

I thought this Information is the same as in the first three sources.

So, i create two fresh (new) chars, a human ranger and a high-elf ranger. I
use Point based and reduce the pre-set Points to Zero. Spending no
Points at all. That leaves the chars with the following stats:
human: 10/12/8/11/9
high-elf: 11/15/7/14/10

If i compare the to-hit base values i see
human: melee 19,+0 and shoot 25,+0
high-elf: melee 23, +0 and shoot 33, +0

Considering the help-files i had expected that the high-elf ranger Comes to
melee 29,+0 and shoot 50,+0.

Since the to-hit calculation changes (for example if you give high str or dex)
i thought that is most likely accurate and the values used in game.

Conclusion: the four help files/ informations must be wrong.
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Old January 4, 2015, 19:16   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tibarius View Post

Since the to-hit calculation changes (for example if you give high str or dex)
i thought that is most likely accurate and the values used in game.

Conclusion: the four help files/ informations must be wrong.
Well spotted, but actually they're both sort of right. The numbers given in the help files are divided by 3, and rounded down, before they are added to the to-hit score. I don't really know why this is the case, because it's quite confusing. But that's what is happening. You're right that the help files should probably explain this somehow.
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Old January 5, 2015, 04:45   #7
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Originally Posted by takkaria View Post
Well spotted, but actually they're both sort of right. The numbers given in the help files are divided by 3, and rounded down, before they are added to the to-hit score. I don't really know why this is the case, because it's quite confusing. But that's what is happening. You're right that the help files should probably explain this somehow.
No, in reality the stupid divide by 3 modifier should be eliminated, just like the AC/2 idiocy. Theoretically this could even be done on restruct, since it technically doesn't affect gameplay, just game display.
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Old January 5, 2015, 07:31   #8
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Originally Posted by fizzix View Post
No, in reality the stupid divide by 3 modifier should be eliminated, just like the AC/2 idiocy. Theoretically this could even be done on restruct, since it technically doesn't affect gameplay, just game display.
So that would require, like, one of the devteam to do it
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Old January 5, 2015, 11:04   #9
Tibarius
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ability boni

1. Thank you Takkaria for looking this up. It makes me feel better, knowing that i do not understand things right, but that the things are just confusing as i thought them to be

2. Agree to fizzix, why not eliminate the div 3, and reduce the modifiers and update the help informations? New Players (if there are any) probably prefer to see the actual modifiers when creating a new character.
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Old January 5, 2015, 15:03   #10
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So that would require, like, one of the devteam to do it
I did the AC once before, I'll have to remember everything that needs to be fixed. I think you just need to eliminate the factor and divide all the AC values in the edit files by 2.

I'm not sure about the other calculation. It's a little trickier because your +1 to hit weapon is really something like +3 I think.
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