[Frogcomposband] Rage Mage feels weak

[Pete Mack]

Extra damage sides is huge late in the game (eg. 8d5 vs 8d7 with Slay evil is a whopping 16 points nominal *per blow*.) I agree it is useless with a light weapon.

[archolewa]

So it's basically like wearing a powerful Ring of Combat. I absolutely agree, it's a big deal. But seeing as how some casters have the ability to *literally make themselves immune to damage* for several turns, I don't see how it's inherently unbalanced for a caster-warrior to effectively get to put on a temporary Ring of Combat. Especially since, the way Rage Mage works, putting it on is at the cost of HP, at the cost of healing, or at the cost of combat time.

But that's neither here nor there, since the spell doesn't appear to do anything anyway. ^_^

[Pete Mack]

I don't think it's unbalanced. I just thought the original comment on the topic was somewhat off-target. It should be a CL 35-ish spell, though, since it isn't worth much till after stat gain.

Not working at all is a different issue, tho. Yikes.

[archolewa]

OK! So I just won with the changes I made to Rage Mage (first win too, so if Sideways doesn't take my changes I'll be sad forever ).

So maybe that makes the class overpowered? Dunno, probably not though. I think that I just got some *really* good gear (Winblows + Feanor = Murderous Mayhem). The character dump can be found here: http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=24022

I've opened a PR with my changes here: https://github.com/sulkasormi/frogcomposband/pull/277

There are several commits, each commit message explains their changes and my reasoning for them. In summary:

1. Awesome Blow got a big accuracy buff (but just for Rage Mage), since a Rage Mage pays a steeper cost to use it than a Mauler.

2. The utility spells that don't really fit the flavor of the class have been replaced with buffs that help the Rage Mage handle being outnumbered, and helps keep them viable in melee despite their rather low blow count.

3. Their max blows have been bumped from 3 to 4.5 (though the rate at which they gain blows hasn't been changed).

The class is now much more viable as a melee class I think. Blow count is rather low, but high strength, a spell with the same effects as a Potion of Giant Strength, and a spell that gives them the Force brand means they can make *very* good use of heavy, high damage dice weapons.

Whether or not it's overpowered, I can't say. But I *can* say is that the class played like a berserker warrior with rage fueled by magic, and that's really what I wanted. And while I did faceroll much of the endgame, a lot of that came from my excellent gear (I had a much more difficult time if I used any weapon other than Winblows for example), and there were still enemies that gave me trouble.

[archolewa]

Another idea occurred to me for making Rage Mage more fun/powerful. This would probably require more work than swapping out the spell list, but might help give the Rage Mage some more flavor: lean into their low blow count.

Basically, make Rage Mages "magical" Maulers. Give them a low blow count, and bonuses for wielding heavy weapons. The bonuses could either be tied to their spells or be direct bonuses like Maulers, though I haven't played Maulers yet, so I'm not sure exactly what bonuses they get. Basically, make them Maulers who aren't quite as good at mauling, but who make up for it by having tools for dealing with mages.

There's already a little bit of precedent for this, in that both classes share Awesome Blow.

[Sideways]

Originally Posted by archolewa

Another idea occurred to me for making Rage Mage more fun/powerful. This would probably require more work than swapping out the spell list, but might help give the Rage Mage some more flavor: lean into their low blow count.

Basically, make Rage Mages "magical" Maulers. Give them a low blow count, and bonuses for wielding heavy weapons. The bonuses could either be tied to their spells or be direct bonuses like Maulers, though I haven't played Maulers yet, so I'm not sure exactly what bonuses they get. Basically, make them Maulers who aren't quite as good at mauling, but who make up for it by having tools for dealing with mages.

There's already a little bit of precedent for this, in that both classes share Awesome Blow.

Sounded like your Rage-Mage winner already played quite a lot like this; Mauler is about the only other class where wielding Winblows would make any sense. Revert that character from 4.5 blows back to 3 and there's your magical mauler

[archolewa]

Originally Posted by Sideways

Sounded like your Rage-Mage winner already played quite a lot like this; Mauler is about the only other class where wielding Winblows would make any sense. Revert that character from 4.5 blows back to 3 and there's your magical mauler

True, though I'm not sure the spells I gave Rage Mage are powerful enough to make up for losing 1.5 blows. The Rage Mage might want a few of the other Mauler Blow abilities beyond just Awesome Blow.