Blackguards: 4.2.1 to 4.2.2 (and beyond?) - Page 3

wobbly · October 10, 2020, 19:40

Had fun with this. Thanks to David Medley for your work, & Nick for the initial idea of a bad stealth berserker.

I'll hmm... go through the spell list? If you want something else, just ask.

spell:Seek Battle - a detect, self explanatory.
spell:Berserk Strength - works as a fear cure. Other then that I fell berserk needs work in general in vanilla. I always feel the downside in AC is worse then the +hit. Frogcompos has a more fun version.
spell:Leap into Battle - used it a fair bit up to warg form which has fast move. Still used it occasionally, between the 2 spells I could get up close to Qs and drujs and just smash
spell:Shatter Stone - dig spell. dig good.
spell:Whirlwind Attack - needs to work with bloodlust to be worth it.
spell:Grim Purpose - obviously good

spell:Maim Foe - good spell didn't use much after warg form, because can't cast when you are a warg
spell:Howl of the Damned - didn't use much. Probably strong though, seeing the wargs fear effect in action... It was Maia and great drakes at times.
spell:Relentless Taunting - ran this non stop. One of my 4 core spells in the end. Bloodlust, Taunt, Venom, Werewolf. Those were the 4 I just spammed in the endgame.
spell:Venom - another of my core. I used firestar for a while and it's actually a good weapon with a 2nd brand. Then I had Orome which is another fire brand. I think balrogs might be effected by poison?
spell:Werewolf Form - a woooh...

spell:Bloodlust - risked Morgoth with this. Actually I risked everything with this. Taresque, Pitfiends, the unique canines, Sauron. Not sensible, but it is damn brutal & maybe you can just get away with it. I certainly did.
spell:Unholy Reprieve - useful. especially considering bloodlust side effects.
spell:Forceful Blow - forgot this existed. I think I used it around the point I got it though?
spell:Quake - used it as a sight breaker in the Morgoth fight and as a pseudo heal. Its ok, but not wonderful

Ingwe Ingweron · October 10, 2020, 20:17

Thanks for this spell analysis, Wobbly. I haven't got all the books yet, and just started learning the 2nd book spells. Nice to have a heads-up on how they might be used.

Sphara · October 10, 2020, 23:07

@wobbly
Excellent summary of blackguard spells, hard to disagree with it. I maybe used Maim Foe more than you, but it becomes pretty much useless after finding a wand of stun monster.

DavidMedley · October 12, 2020, 00:48

You'd rather use a wand of stun monster? That's a problem, if you have a legitimate case.

Sphara · October 12, 2020, 03:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidMedley

You'd rather use a wand of stun monster? That's a problem, if you have a legitimate case.

Maim Foe is a very good spell because stunning is really crippling on a monster. Also, for a blackguard getting Maim is guaranteed, whereas getting a wand of stunning isn't. It's just that the wand never misses and can be used at range that makes me prefer it, if I have it.

gglibertine · October 12, 2020, 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sphara

@wobbly
Excellent summary of blackguard spells, hard to disagree with it. I maybe used Maim Foe more than you, but it becomes pretty much useless after finding a wand of stun monster.

I'm curious about this -- what exactly are the effects of stunning? I've never found stun monster all that useful, but maybe I'm using it wrong.

Pete Mack · October 12, 2020, 19:28

Monster's damage and hit probability are both reduced significantly. Monster has a noticeable chance to miss a turn. For the player, the result is a similar reduction in melee as well as a flat reduction in spell failure (15% failure rate added to all spells.)

archolewa · October 13, 2020, 05:37

Personally I prefer Maim Foe over the wand because it never runs out of charges, doesn't take a precious inventory slot, does a bit of damage and a bit of heating. Mostly for the saved inventory slot. An attack wand is nice to have instead since Blackguards have pretty weak shooting.

Nick · November 30, 2020, 12:40

How are you feeling about blackguards now, David? It's just that there are only three outstanding bugs in the nightlies, and I'm pretty confident I'm not going to fix two of then ever, so it's probably close to time to give up and release 4.2.2.

On the other hand if you want to take longer, then presumably backwardsEric will go on polishing the codebase until it shines, so we're good either way

DavidMedley · December 1, 2020, 05:47

Let me make a few tweaks. I'll save the rest for the next version. End of this weekend a good deadline?

October 10, 2020, 20:17	#22
Ingwe Ingweron Veteran Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Manhattan Beach, CA Posts: 2,006	Thanks for this spell analysis, Wobbly. I haven't got all the books yet, and just started learning the 2nd book spells. Nice to have a heads-up on how they might be used. __________________ “We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see.” ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

November 30, 2020, 12:40	#29
Nick Vanilla maintainer Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Canberra, Australia Age: 55 Posts: 8,648 Donated: $60	How are you feeling about blackguards now, David? It's just that there are only three outstanding bugs in the nightlies, and I'm pretty confident I'm not going to fix two of then ever, so it's probably close to time to give up and release 4.2.2. On the other hand if you want to take longer, then presumably backwardsEric will go on polishing the codebase until it shines, so we're good either way __________________ One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

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October 10, 2020, 19:40	#21
wobbly Veteran Join Date: May 2012 Location: Adelaide, Australia Posts: 2,432	Had fun with this. Thanks to David Medley for your work, & Nick for the initial idea of a bad stealth berserker. I'll hmm... go through the spell list? If you want something else, just ask. spell:Seek Battle - a detect, self explanatory. spell:Berserk Strength - works as a fear cure. Other then that I fell berserk needs work in general in vanilla. I always feel the downside in AC is worse then the +hit. Frogcompos has a more fun version. spell:Leap into Battle - used it a fair bit up to warg form which has fast move. Still used it occasionally, between the 2 spells I could get up close to Qs and drujs and just smash spell:Shatter Stone - dig spell. dig good. spell:Whirlwind Attack - needs to work with bloodlust to be worth it. spell:Grim Purpose - obviously good spell:Maim Foe - good spell didn't use much after warg form, because can't cast when you are a warg spell:Howl of the Damned - didn't use much. Probably strong though, seeing the wargs fear effect in action... It was Maia and great drakes at times. spell:Relentless Taunting - ran this non stop. One of my 4 core spells in the end. Bloodlust, Taunt, Venom, Werewolf. Those were the 4 I just spammed in the endgame. spell:Venom - another of my core. I used firestar for a while and it's actually a good weapon with a 2nd brand. Then I had Orome which is another fire brand. I think balrogs might be effected by poison? spell:Werewolf Form - a woooh... spell:Bloodlust - risked Morgoth with this. Actually I risked everything with this. Taresque, Pitfiends, the unique canines, Sauron. Not sensible, but it is damn brutal & maybe you can just get away with it. I certainly did. spell:Unholy Reprieve - useful. especially considering bloodlust side effects. spell:Forceful Blow - forgot this existed. I think I used it around the point I got it though? spell:Quake - used it as a sight breaker in the Morgoth fight and as a pseudo heal. Its ok, but not wonderful

October 10, 2020, 23:07	#23
Sphara Swordsman Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Finland Posts: 416	@wobbly Excellent summary of blackguard spells, hard to disagree with it. I maybe used Maim Foe more than you, but it becomes pretty much useless after finding a wand of stun monster.

October 12, 2020, 00:48	#24
DavidMedley Knight Join Date: Oct 2019 Posts: 941	You'd rather use a wand of stun monster? That's a problem, if you have a legitimate case.

October 12, 2020, 19:28	#27
Pete Mack Prophet Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 5,979 Donated: $40	Monster's damage and hit probability are both reduced significantly. Monster has a noticeable chance to miss a turn. For the player, the result is a similar reduction in melee as well as a flat reduction in spell failure (15% failure rate added to all spells.)

October 13, 2020, 05:37	#28
archolewa Swordsman Join Date: Feb 2019 Location: Midwest Age: 32 Posts: 261	Personally I prefer Maim Foe over the wand because it never runs out of charges, doesn't take a precious inventory slot, does a bit of damage and a bit of heating. Mostly for the saved inventory slot. An attack wand is nice to have instead since Blackguards have pretty weak shooting.

December 1, 2020, 05:47	#30
DavidMedley Knight Join Date: Oct 2019 Posts: 941	Let me make a few tweaks. I'll save the rest for the next version. End of this weekend a good deadline?

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