Thoughts (definitely not a rant) about Maia

Selkie · January 5, 2021, 11:39

* My biggest issue with the Maia is when they transform. I've lost two very high level characters to a Maia that transformed into a vortex. Their attack seems to be much more powerful than a standard vortex (am I correct in this?) It makes them a threat, which I like, but highly unpredictable (which I don't)

* There are too many of them appearing in the dungeon - these are some of the most powerful beings in Tolkien's world and should be rarer. Also it's a bit like killing farmer Maggot, I always feel like "Am I the good guy?" when I'm hacking away at them. I don't know enough about Tolkien but surely these lads were anti-Morgorth?

* The various flavours of Maia don't feel distinct enough and I can never remember which is which. I'm not sure what the answer is here, but by contrast the dragons all feel so unique, even the hydras have their own particular flavour.

Like I say this is not a rant (definitely not a rant) and consider that I just lost a dlvl50 character who had dispatched Sauron, Witch King, Cantoras and the Tarrasque (the latter only needed one *healing potion to kill). I was tough, I still don't quite know how he died to a Maia vortex appearing out of nowhere

Selkie · January 5, 2021, 12:32

Also, while I'm not ranting....

How can a non unique Maia of Aule transform into Quaker the Master of the Earth on a whim?

No other monster in Angband can just turn into a scary unique whenever they fancy it

wobbly · January 5, 2021, 15:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Selkie

* My biggest issue with the Maia is when they transform. I've lost two very high level characters to a Maia that transformed into a vortex. Their attack seems to be much more powerful than a standard vortex (am I correct in this?) It makes them a threat, which I like, but highly unpredictable (which I don't)

Breathe weapons damage is based on monster hps (current hps), with a damage cap based on the element. The caps are listed here:

https://github.com/angband/angband/b...projection.txt

A Maia has a lot more hps then a vortex and is likely to be hitting the cap.

Thraalbee · January 5, 2021, 20:00

Wiruin (also a "v") is far worse than transformed Maiar and appears later. The way it is now fits with the learning curve. First v's were bad, then ok if you resist their element, then you learn they can be very bad in the late game. Now at least there is a chance that you will survive a level with wiruin when that happens.

Selkie · January 5, 2021, 23:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by wobbly

Breathe weapons damage is based on monster hps (current hps), with a damage cap based on the element. The caps are listed here:

https://github.com/angband/angband/b...projection.txt

A Maia has a lot more hps then a vortex and is likely to be hitting the cap.

Exactly, so a Maia goes from becoming a general annoyance to a three breath death machine. It's really hard to stay on top of. So I'm fighting a few Maia. One has transformed into a chaos vortex. I teleport away because things get a bit hot. Perhaps I have a chaos or shard hole in my resistances, that's doable with over 800hp and ESP. I know I could likely survive a breath from a D even if I get clumsy, but I don't because I have detect fear and telepathy. I run down a corridor and get breathed to death by a 'v' super soldier. It's really annoying

LordRotharoth · January 6, 2021, 04:48

I have always disliked Maia, they need nerfed or something along the lines of that.

archolewa · January 6, 2021, 05:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordRotharoth

I have always disliked Maia, they need nerfed or something along the lines of that.

They're not as bad as ranger chieftains, if only because you have reliable TO by the time they start showing up. But yeah, the whole Maia fighting you feels even more off these days after the monster rework. It was tolerable when you were also fighting Radagast and the Vala of the Sun (I forget her name), but now that the Maia uniques have been reworked to be Maia who aren't exactly nice, even if they aren't exactly evil, it feels a little bit weird to see a Maia and a Balrog chilling in a vault having tea.

I chalk it up to Maia that have been seduced by Morgoth, but who haven't yet become so corrupted they lose their original identity and become Balrogs.

Nick · January 6, 2021, 07:45

Sauron started out as a Maia of Aule, so presumably the ones you meet could be corrupted or at least ambivalent.

wobbly · January 6, 2021, 12:57

Maybe they're just after your drop?

Angdrim · January 6, 2021, 20:10

I just make it a point to not fight them.

But they don't fit flavor-wise. Neither did the angels that preceded them.

January 5, 2021, 11:39	#1
Selkie Adept Join Date: Aug 2020 Posts: 154	Thoughts (definitely not a rant) about Maia * My biggest issue with the Maia is when they transform. I've lost two very high level characters to a Maia that transformed into a vortex. Their attack seems to be much more powerful than a standard vortex (am I correct in this?) It makes them a threat, which I like, but highly unpredictable (which I don't) * There are too many of them appearing in the dungeon - these are some of the most powerful beings in Tolkien's world and should be rarer. Also it's a bit like killing farmer Maggot, I always feel like "Am I the good guy?" when I'm hacking away at them. I don't know enough about Tolkien but surely these lads were anti-Morgorth? * The various flavours of Maia don't feel distinct enough and I can never remember which is which. I'm not sure what the answer is here, but by contrast the dragons all feel so unique, even the hydras have their own particular flavour. Like I say this is not a rant (definitely not a rant) and consider that I just lost a dlvl50 character who had dispatched Sauron, Witch King, Cantoras and the Tarrasque (the latter only needed one *healing potion to kill). I was tough, I still don't quite know how he died to a Maia vortex appearing out of nowhere

January 6, 2021, 07:45	#8
Nick Vanilla maintainer Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Canberra, Australia Age: 55 Posts: 8,649 Donated: $60	Sauron started out as a Maia of Aule, so presumably the ones you meet could be corrupted or at least ambivalent. __________________ One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

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January 5, 2021, 12:32	#2
Selkie Adept Join Date: Aug 2020 Posts: 154	Also, while I'm not ranting.... How can a non unique Maia of Aule transform into Quaker the Master of the Earth on a whim? No other monster in Angband can just turn into a scary unique whenever they fancy it

January 5, 2021, 20:00	#4
Thraalbee Knight Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Stockholm Posts: 630	Wiruin (also a "v") is far worse than transformed Maiar and appears later. The way it is now fits with the learning curve. First v's were bad, then ok if you resist their element, then you learn they can be very bad in the late game. Now at least there is a chance that you will survive a level with wiruin when that happens.

January 6, 2021, 04:48	#6
LordRotharoth Apprentice Join Date: Dec 2019 Age: 16 Posts: 50	I have always disliked Maia, they need nerfed or something along the lines of that.

January 6, 2021, 12:57	#9
wobbly Veteran Join Date: May 2012 Location: Adelaide, Australia Posts: 2,432	Maybe they're just after your drop?

January 6, 2021, 20:10	#10
Angdrim Rookie Join Date: Aug 2020 Posts: 13	I just make it a point to not fight them. But they don't fit flavor-wise. Neither did the angels that preceded them.

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