Angband.oook.cz
Angband.oook.cz
AboutVariantsLadderForumCompetitionComicScreenshotsFunniesLinks

Go Back   Angband Forums > Angband > Vanilla

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old January 25, 2014, 21:39   #1
mandos
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4
mandos is on a distinguished road
Question about Vaults

My most recent stupid death is listed below:

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=15533

This one was a little bit different from most of mine. Most of mine have been caused by boldly taking on the unfamiliar (not exactly a new story, but still). This one was caused, perhaps, by a misunderstanding of some terms.

My understanding, based on forum readings and the messages from the store keepers was that you couldn't phase into a vault, even if you were already in the vault. I suspect I may have misunderstood the precise definition of "vault".

Right before my character died, I ran across a room full of ninja, soldiers and hardened warriors. Since I did not know yet how lucrative the level was supposed to be, I decided to clear them out. One of the ninja reduced my strength, leaving me overburdened. With plenty of ?phase and _teleport, I figured I could just take them out in waves. I took a couple of bad hits on the second (maybe third?) wave and decided to get out of there. I figured a ?phase should have been sufficient since I was in a hall that wrapped around the rectangular room where the enemies had started out. So, I phased--right into the middle of the room where I took a few more shots and was done for.

Would this room have been considered a vault? If not, how do I know a vault as opposed to a room full of enemies? Had I realized I could have phased into the room, I would have used the staff of transportation.
mandos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 25, 2014, 22:01   #2
Monkey Face
Adept
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 161
Monkey Face is on a distinguished road
The 19x5 rooms in older versions were generally considered monster pits and could be filled with orcs, jellies, trolls, animals, dragons, or undead. In 3.5.0, there are smaller square rooms that are filled with various types of monsters. Neither of these are considered vaults.

I could be wrong but I believe that one distinguishing feature in vaults is that they will have permanent walls. Reading/casting/activating phase door will take you outside the permanent walls.
Monkey Face is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 25, 2014, 22:45   #3
Nick
Vanilla maintainer
 
Nick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Canberra, Australia
Age: 52
Posts: 6,566
Donated: $60
Nick is on a distinguished road
Monkey Face is correct - what you saw was a pit. Vaults are not always easy to recognise; technically, they're anything that's in the vault.txt file
Broadly speaking they're big rooms full of monsters, treasure and traps, except sometimes they're not big, or don't contain traps, or treasure. They often, but not always have permanent walls and/or require digging into. Monsters are frequently out-of-depth (sometimes many levels), as are objects.

If it's any comfort, phasing into a pit is a classic way to die, and a lot of players are quietly smiling now
__________________
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.
Nick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 25, 2014, 23:06   #4
Derakon
Prophet
 
Derakon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 7,943
Derakon is on a distinguished road
There's no reliable way to recognize a vault; not all vaults have permanent walls, for example. This is especially true in 3.5, where there are templated rooms (as specified in room_template.txt) that can look an awful lot like vaults, but don't have vaultlike "icky" tiles that can't be teleported onto. Like Nick says, the only way to know if a vault is a vault is to recognize its layout from vault.txt.

Sorry for your lost character.
Derakon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 25, 2014, 23:42   #5
Nomad
Knight
 
Nomad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: England
Posts: 958
Nomad is on a distinguished road
There are three types of special rooms: vaults, nests and pits. This screen shot here is a pretty good illustration: screen showing two vaults and a pit.

The funny shaped rooms at the top left and the bottom centre are both vaults. They have complicated layouts, traps, treasures on the floor, and a completely random mix of monsters. There isn't always a way to get in without digging, and some vaults have unbreakable permanent walls so you can only dig through at certain specific points. Like you say, it's impossible to phase or teleport into a vault.

The room on the centre left that's completely packed with orcs is a pit. Pits are always square or rectangular moated rooms (i.e. a central room surrounded by corridors on all four sides) with a single door, and are filled with an organized arrangement of related monsters such as all orcs, all warriors, all archers, or similar. Pits don't have any treasure on the floor, but they're filled with monsters that drop items when you kill them, so if you manage to clear a pit you end up with a lot of loot from their drops.

Nests are almost the same as pits - moated rooms completely packed with a themed collection of monsters - but where pits generally contain an organised collection of "person" type monsters (human, orcs, giants, etc.) that drop treasures when killed, nests contain a random mix of "animal" type monsters (ants, jellies, reptiles, etc.) and have treasures on the floor instead.

Unlike vaults, you can teleport into a pit or nest if there's any free space inside, and yes, it's a pretty classic way to get a character killed, unfortunately. Commiserations.
Nomad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 26, 2014, 00:11   #6
Derakon
Prophet
 
Derakon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 7,943
Derakon is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad View Post
There are three types of special rooms: vaults, nests and pits. This screen shot here is a pretty good illustration: screen showing two vaults and a pit.
You forgot templated rooms, which are new in 3.5. They can have any shape, may have items or monsters in specific tiles, and can be freely teleported into. They're awfully similar to vaults, though the current designs don't have any that are as "dense" as vaults tend to be.
Derakon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 26, 2014, 09:46   #7
Magnate
Angband Devteam member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: London, UK
Posts: 5,054
Magnate is on a distinguished road
Send a message via MSN to Magnate Send a message via Yahoo to Magnate Send a message via Skype™ to Magnate
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
You forgot templated rooms, which are new in 3.5. They can have any shape, may have items or monsters in specific tiles, and can be freely teleported into. They're awfully similar to vaults, though the current designs don't have any that are as "dense" as vaults tend to be.
There is a delightful irony in Nomad forgetting the templated rooms - or perhaps it's just modesty ;-)
__________________
"3.4 is much better than 3.1, 3.2 or 3.3. It still is easier than 3.0.9, but it is more convenient to play without being ridiculously easy, so it is my new favorite of the versions." - Timo Pietila
Magnate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 26, 2014, 11:04   #8
Nomad
Knight
 
Nomad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: England
Posts: 958
Nomad is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnate View Post
There is a delightful irony in Nomad forgetting the templated rooms - or perhaps it's just modesty ;-)
I didn't forget they existed. I just left them out because I thought they'd confuse things further, as they're not really "special" rooms as such, just funny shaped ordinary rooms with level-appropriate monsters and treasure.

But, yes, it does get a bit harder to recognise vaults in Angband 3.5, since the new room templates mean the shape of the standard rooms is a lot more varied. Basically, if it has permanent walls, no way in without digging, regular arrangements of traps, and/or a high density of varied monsters and treasures, it's a vault.
Nomad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 26, 2014, 16:35   #9
Timo Pietilš
Prophet
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Climbing up from hole I just dug.
Posts: 4,080
Timo Pietilš is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad View Post
There are three types of special rooms: vaults, nests and pits.
Pit: organized so that the most dangerous monster of this single type (letter) is at the middle of the pit.

Nest: similar shape as pit, but contains several types of same sub-type (animal, jellies and undead basically) in non-organized manner.
Undead nest is so dangerous that it is usually called a undead pit like it would be a type of its own. It isn't but it probably is the most dangerous room type there is (besides vaults)

Vault: contains OoD items and monsters. Many shapes. There is a distinction of greater and lesser vaults, greater vault always has permanent walls (not all of walls), and are usually much larger than lesser vaults. I also think that all GV:s have at least one "monster 40lvl OOD, item 20lvl OoD" block.

Then there are bunch of special rooms that are basically just rooms with some other shape than just empty rectangle. Some of those have some "special" features, like more than normal amount of traps.
Timo Pietilš is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 31, 2014, 15:51   #10
brownbear
Rookie
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 13
brownbear is on a distinguished road
I too used to think "pits" were "vaults".

I read about people talking about vaults, but my characters used to never be deep enough to find them I guess. I just assumed those pits of terrible molds and jellies were vaults.
brownbear is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Stair Vaults UglySquirrell Vanilla 8 August 27, 2011 18:41
What else should not be allowed in vaults? fizzix Vanilla 96 December 27, 2010 04:37
Vaults? Swede2378 Vanilla 3 June 13, 2010 02:04
Types of vaults Wraitheist Vanilla 5 September 8, 2008 01:53
Where are all those vaults? The Sparrow Vanilla 4 March 10, 2008 15:44


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:28.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.