Angband.oook.cz
Angband.oook.cz
AboutVariantsLadderForumCompetitionComicScreenshotsFunniesLinks

Go Back   Angband Forums > Angband > Vanilla

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old July 1, 2011, 07:59   #1
Netbrian
Adept
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 134
Netbrian is on a distinguished road
Scrolls and Staves of Summoning

How do people feel about tweaking scrolls/staves of summoning so that if you use them below 2500' or so, they have a high chance of summoning a unique? The idea would be to give players a way to make the pre-Morgoth unique hunt a bit easier for people that are so inclined (I'm really not big on Morgoth summoning, say, Vecna.)

One note is that I think it'd work best if the effect could place a unique within a fairly wide radius of the player (or even anywhere on the level.) I don't want the player to be able to use this to just conveniently dump their opponent in a rune-filled ASC.

What do people think?
Netbrian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 1, 2011, 10:27   #2
Tobias
Adept
 
Tobias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 172
Tobias is on a distinguished road
We don't even need the level limit.
Summoning could just (have a chance of) summoning an unique form a lower depth than the current level. This way if someone casts it as level 3 he can get smeagol at worst.
__________________
My Angband videos : http://www.youtube.com/view_play_lis...385E85F31166B2
Tobias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 1, 2011, 12:00   #3
fizzix
Prophet
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, US
Posts: 3,001
fizzix is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
We don't even need the level limit.
Summoning could just (have a chance of) summoning an unique form a lower depth than the current level. This way if someone casts it as level 3 he can get smeagol at worst.
I died once by using test-reading summoning and getting some orc unique and his escort, and dying immediately (first hit from 5 monsters killed me, despite that I was on stairs)

The problem with the suggestion is that it's too risky as it stands now. A deep summon could bring up 2 jabberwockies or a dracolisk and azriel. These combos can instakill a character. The chance is not high, but it's not low enough to be acceptable either. Also, gothmog, lungorthin, vecna and feagwath are a lot harder when their escorts are awake. You don't want to fight them through summoning if that can be avoided.

If summoning was reduced to one monster with a higher probability of it being unique then it could work. You still have the escort problem, but provided you have killed the escorted uniques you could use it to track down huan, charcharoth, tarrasque, azriel, atlas etc.
fizzix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 1, 2011, 13:04   #4
Tobias
Adept
 
Tobias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 172
Tobias is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzix View Post
I died once by using test-reading summoning and getting some orc unique and his escort, and dying immediately (first hit from 5 monsters killed me, despite that I was on stairs)

The problem with the suggestion is that it's too risky as it stands now. A deep summon could bring up 2 jabberwockies or a dracolisk and azriel. These combos can instakill a character. The chance is not high, but it's not low enough to be acceptable either. Also, gothmog, lungorthin, vecna and feagwath are a lot harder when their escorts are awake. You don't want to fight them through summoning if that can be avoided.

If summoning was reduced to one monster with a higher probability of it being unique then it could work. You still have the escort problem, but provided you have killed the escorted uniques you could use it to track down huan, charcharoth, tarrasque, azriel, atlas etc.
Yes if an unique is summoned he should be the only thing summoned. It should probably include his escort, though. But I don'T mind keeping it risky. Or we could make the summoned monsters be asleep when summoned. This would increase the value of summoning.
__________________
My Angband videos : http://www.youtube.com/view_play_lis...385E85F31166B2
Tobias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 1, 2011, 14:21   #5
buzzkill
Prophet
 
buzzkill's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Indiana, USA
Posts: 2,939
Donated: $8
buzzkill is on a distinguished road
They are already one of the most evil, low level items you can find. If I read this right you're suggesting making then more powerful. I fear this will make them an even bigger player killer in the early game when characters are weak, and a tool for the end game character, who's already strong.

Items of Summoning aren't supposed to be beneficial to the player. They aren't meant to be mixed-blessing. Tweaking them to suit the player's purpose seems wrong. If you want deep uniques to be summoned, don't kill all the summoners.

I might be able to support a new item of *summoning*, which clears an area around the player (50' radius) of all walls and debris and has a decent probability of producing a unique.
__________________
www.mediafire.com/buzzkill - Get your 32x32 tiles here. UT32 now compatible Ironband and Quickband 9/6/2012.
My banding life on Buzzkill's ladder.
buzzkill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 1, 2011, 14:40   #6
bulian
Adept
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 161
bulian is on a distinguished road
Why not make the summoning traps do this instead?
bulian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 1, 2011, 14:48   #7
buzzkill
Prophet
 
buzzkill's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Indiana, USA
Posts: 2,939
Donated: $8
buzzkill is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by bulian View Post
Why not make the summoning traps do this instead?
I envision you constructing the 'finger pyramid of evil contemplation' while posting that.
__________________
www.mediafire.com/buzzkill - Get your 32x32 tiles here. UT32 now compatible Ironband and Quickband 9/6/2012.
My banding life on Buzzkill's ladder.
buzzkill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 1, 2011, 15:08   #8
Raxmei
Apprentice
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 94
Raxmei is on a distinguished road
Adding that to the items would allow you to go up the stairs a few levels and assassinate uniques above their native depth in controlled circumstances. That's a very big deal in the case of summoners and sometimes escorts, and in general lets you come to the fight well prepared in a dungeon level that's more or less safe to teleport in. If you want to make the hunt for uniques go quicker I'd prefer for summon unique to become a more common monster ability starting around 4250'.
Raxmei is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 1, 2011, 15:16   #9
bulian
Adept
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 161
bulian is on a distinguished road
Quote:
I envision you constructing the 'finger pyramid of evil contemplation' while posting that.
Hmm but doing so would make it awfully hard to type, now wouldn't it?
bulian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 1, 2011, 15:18   #10
Netbrian
Adept
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 134
Netbrian is on a distinguished road
Everyone here made some good points.
  1. To deal with the native depth issue, you could simply not allow it to summon out of depth uniques.
  2. When summoning uniques, I'm leaning even more toward it putting them a fair distance away, with their escort. I have no preference about asleep versus awake.
  3. My suggestion was always that they'd only start doing this deeper. In shallower levels, they'd behave as they do today.

Allowing Summon Unique to be more common deeper on is also a good way to improve this.
Netbrian is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
My anti-summoning rant buzzkill Development 7 February 16, 2011 00:39
Summoning hijinks Therem Harth Vanilla 2 October 7, 2010 19:29
rethinking summoning fizzix Vanilla 26 December 8, 2009 20:50
Wands and Staves? Larvitz Vanilla 3 January 16, 2009 23:14
Anti summoning tunnel K.I.L.E.R Variants 6 October 12, 2007 12:39


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 23:08.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.