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Old October 10, 2009, 05:57   #1
miyazaki
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New approach to level feelings

I often think about level feelings since I think they are really nice touch to the game. I was thinking about whether a new approach would work: instead of measuring the level after creation, a random bonus would be applied to the level just before creation. For example, if the player is on dlev 40 and gets an "excellent feeling", the objects on the floor would be created as if it was dlev 50. If the level was "safe" the objects would be dlev 30. The same could be done with monsters/uniques/pit/vaults/etc.

There would be lots of discussion and space for refinement, but I think it would be an interesting way to solve mislabeling of level (i.e. jelly pit issues).

Thoughts?
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Old October 11, 2009, 10:34   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miyazaki View Post
I often think about level feelings since I think they are really nice touch to the game. I was thinking about whether a new approach would work: instead of measuring the level after creation, a random bonus would be applied to the level just before creation. For example, if the player is on dlev 40 and gets an "excellent feeling", the objects on the floor would be created as if it was dlev 50. If the level was "safe" the objects would be dlev 30. The same could be done with monsters/uniques/pit/vaults/etc.

There would be lots of discussion and space for refinement, but I think it would be an interesting way to solve mislabeling of level (i.e. jelly pit issues).

Thoughts?
Did I miss a bout of collective amnesia? There was a massive thread about this fairly recently. Lots of thoughts there. (Goes off and looks for the link.)
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Old October 12, 2009, 20:44   #3
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Did I miss a bout of collective amnesia? There was a massive thread about this fairly recently. Lots of thoughts there. (Goes off and looks for the link.)
There are threads about level feelings all the time like this one:
http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=2252

The thing is though, there's never a cohesive thread with every idea we've discussed with pros and cons of each... They've just been stream of consciousness threads where whatever the individual poster thinks up at the moment gets agreed to or vehemently shot down.


As for the OP: I don't think choosing level feeling before creation will make any difference in gameplay in the end result after balancing / QA gets done with it... Plus it would be a -ton- of coding work. So I'll chalk this one up under vehemently shot down. (I can't believe I spelled that word correctly the first time too)
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Old October 13, 2009, 04:15   #4
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Originally Posted by Ghen View Post
As for the OP: I don't think choosing level feeling before creation will make any difference in gameplay in the end result after balancing / QA gets done with it... Plus it would be a -ton- of coding work. So I'll chalk this one up under vehemently shot down. (I can't believe I spelled that word correctly the first time too)
I didn't think that I had seen this idea suggested before in the other threads. I thought it would be easy to implement code-wise but apparently not. Consider the idea dropped. Though I hope that level feeling continue to be part of the game development.
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Old October 13, 2009, 15:07   #5
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Originally Posted by miyazaki View Post
I didn't think that I had seen this idea suggested before in the other threads. I thought it would be easy to implement code-wise but apparently not. Consider the idea dropped. Though I hope that level feeling continue to be part of the game development.
I'm sure that at some point that this will get done the right way, whatever that may be. Players love their level feeling. IMO, the reason it never gets done is that it's just not that important to the game (with the exception of special feelings). It adds flavor, but could just as easily be dropped without losing much, if anything.
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Old October 13, 2009, 20:29   #6
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I'm a big fan of Hengband-style level feelings, which change as you stay on the level to adjust for newly generated monsters and drops. For example, you arrive on the level, and for the first few turns, it'll say, "Looks like any other level." Then after a while it says "You feel nervous." When you find the dungeon book that was creating that feeling and pick it up, it says "This level looks relatively safe." Then a bad unique gets generated on the far side of the level, and soon it's "You have a bad feeling about this level"....

Or suppose you're clearing a vault; the level starts at "This level looks very dangerous" and by the time you've killed/ID'd all the stuff, it's "What a boring place..."
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Old October 15, 2009, 16:28   #7
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Originally Posted by Djabanete View Post
I'm a big fan of Hengband-style level feelings, which change as you stay on the level to adjust for newly generated monsters and drops. For example, you arrive on the level, and for the first few turns, it'll say, "Looks like any other level." Then after a while it says "You feel nervous." When you find the dungeon book that was creating that feeling and pick it up, it says "This level looks relatively safe." Then a bad unique gets generated on the far side of the level, and soon it's "You have a bad feeling about this level"....

Or suppose you're clearing a vault; the level starts at "This level looks very dangerous" and by the time you've killed/ID'd all the stuff, it's "What a boring place..."
That sounds like it would be neat to play, but more as a character class that is precognitive by nature with trade-offs elsewhere. Maybe a precog isn't as normally perceptive since they're always looking at the future
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Old October 15, 2009, 19:59   #8
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My personal opinion is that level feelings as they're currently implemented are useless. Most of the good artifacts I've found have been on levels with less than good feelings. I'd pretty much vote to abolish them in their present incarnations.

I don't have very good ideas for this, but I think I would prefer a gradual revealing of the level in advance. Perhaps this would occur when you are in proximity to a good item, or dangerous monster. Kind of like a vague form of ESP + detection. Of course you'd need time to get these feelings, so you'd have to be in proximity to this monster or item for some number of turns.

The logic would be, as you approach the lair of a dangerous monsters or group of monsters, you notice their presence based off of refuse on the floor and marks on the hallways, or the sounds of their snoring. Magical items create an aura around them, that pervades through everything. You could also increase the probability of getting this closeness feel if you have search on. Maybe that would make a use for this pretty much unused option for new players. You aren't just searching for hidden doors in adjacent squares, you are searching for clues as to what lay in the level ahead.

You could even make it class dependent, so rangers get a strong feel for animals and warm blooded monsters, rogues and warriors get strong feelings for weaponry, mages get strong feelings for jewelry and magic items. priests and paladins get strong feelings for evil creatures.
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Old October 15, 2009, 23:02   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzix View Post

The logic would be, as you approach the lair of a dangerous monsters or group of monsters, you notice their presence based off of refuse on the floor and marks on the hallways, or the sounds of their snoring. Magical items create an aura around them, that pervades through everything. You could also increase the probability of getting this closeness feel if you have search on. Maybe that would make a use for this pretty much unused option for new players. You aren't just searching for hidden doors in adjacent squares, you are searching for clues as to what lay in the level ahead.

You could even make it class dependent, so rangers get a strong feel for animals and warm blooded monsters, rogues and warriors get strong feelings for weaponry, mages get strong feelings for jewelry and magic items. priests and paladins get strong feelings for evil creatures.
This.^^^^^
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