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Old September 25, 2009, 02:54   #1
Nemesis
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Does start game stats matter anymore after reaching/exploiting stat gain depth??

I started an NPPAngband Dunadan Paladin yesterday and didn't bother to roll up good stats. I had the idea that stats at the beginning of the game wouldn't matter in the long run as I'd eventually max everything out during the mid-game. However, I'm starting the thread just to be sure, it would be a pity if my character ended up with bad stats because of me being lazy when creating it. In the end, after quaffing a lot of stat potions, plusses and minuses to stats will only determinated by race, class, equipment and temporary stat damage while the base is the same for everyone, right?

I know I started the thread in the Vanilla forum but I figured that NPP is quite a vanilla kind of game (it's not like I'm playing Portalis or ToME ).
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Old September 25, 2009, 04:19   #2
Pete Mack
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Once you max your stats it doesnt matter whatyou started with. But it's a lot mire tedious work if you start low
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Old September 25, 2009, 14:02   #3
Nemesis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Mack View Post
Once you max your stats it doesnt matter whatyou started with. But it's a lot mire tedious work if you start low
Well, I didn't start with rubbish stats, I had that point based system. I got 18 in Strenght, 14 in Dexterity and Wisdom, 16 in Constitution and 10 in Charisma and Intelligence as "self" stats (the stats that are there before the race/class plusses and minuses). Only thing that I'm not content with is that I only get one blow/turn, how do you do to get two? I did put strenght as high as I could and as I'm a Paladin using big swords and such I thought that would do the trick but apparantly not. Is it only with light weapons and dexterity you can do it? Or do you have to be a Half-Troll Warrior or something to hit twice with heavy weapons?

What do you think is most tedious with keeping characters alive to stat gain depth, by the way?? What do you usually succumb to when dying before stat gain depth?

I personally have trouble with the very earliest monsters, especially Farm Maggot's dogs. It's not that they are hard to beat, it's because I don't have any escape/healing/detection items to speak of and I also take more risks as I don't have too much to lose. When it comes to deaths from monsters that appear later than those but before or at stat gain depth, I think I only have one death (Basilisk) and a few close calls (mostly due to me being too brave).

Hmmm, boasting about almost never losing a promising character before stat gain depth counts as RNG revenge bait, right?? So please tell me which monsters that appear between say dlvl5 and dlvl35 that have been most dangerous to your characters so I know what to watch out for when RNG comes to have His/Her/Its vengeance!
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Old September 25, 2009, 14:08   #4
dhegler
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I thought stats worked like this:

You start with 18 in one stat, you start with 10 in another, max for the first may be 18/200, max in the second would only be 18/100. "Lazy" rolls as you say would hurt your character.

And, for extra blows, it is a property of strength plus dexterity. You can look it up in a spoiler. When I had an earlier character, I had a branded whip I could use for 3 blows per round when I could hit once with a sword. No comparison to max damage - the whip was 10x more powerful than the sword with the right branding.
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Old September 25, 2009, 15:33   #5
Nemesis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhegler View Post
I thought stats worked like this:

You start with 18 in one stat, you start with 10 in another, max for the first may be 18/200, max in the second would only be 18/100. "Lazy" rolls as you say would hurt your character.
I'm pretty sure Pete Mack is right, if you check the Ladder you'll see that those clvl 50 adventurers all have the same base points in every stat, only equipment/race/class differs... At least I HOPE Pete Mack is right, as I wasn't only too lazy to roll up the best stats, I didn't even bother rolling at all and used that nerfed points based stat allocation instead!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhegler View Post
And, for extra blows, it is a property of strength plus dexterity. You can look it up in a spoiler. When I had an earlier character, I had a branded whip I could use for 3 blows per round when I could hit once with a sword. No comparison to max damage - the whip was 10x more powerful than the sword with the right branding.
As a Dunadan Paladin, my Strength + Dexterity will at least be very good in the end game! Now I only need to make it there; take that small step that's in between "2. Buy Lantern" and "3. Kill Morgoth"...
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Old September 25, 2009, 15:36   #6
dhegler
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I am in the middle of buying the lantern and defeating Morgoth (which I have never gotten close to in the past).

I am surprised at the max stat thing. Although I would guess it would make some sense for every race/class combo to have their own max stats, despite where they start. I hope someone who understands the code can confirm, then I wouldn't waste so much time trying to get max rolls!
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Old September 25, 2009, 15:47   #7
pampl
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Max "base" stats are always 18/100, your initial rolls don't matter beyond bringing you to stat-gain depth. In maximize mode race and class are treated like equipment and modify your stats after they're capped at 18/100, if maximize mode is off then race and class are treated like stat potions and are added in before stats are capped at 18/100.
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Old September 25, 2009, 16:05   #8
dhegler
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I understand now... Everyone maxes at 18/100 BEFORE race/class bonuses...
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Old October 1, 2009, 17:21   #9
Nemesis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pampl View Post
Max "base" stats are always 18/100, your initial rolls don't matter beyond bringing you to stat-gain depth. In maximize mode race and class are treated like equipment and modify your stats after they're capped at 18/100, if maximize mode is off then race and class are treated like stat potions and are added in before stats are capped at 18/100.
In that case, would it be a good idea to make a Half-Troll Mage with Maximize Mode off?




Race + Class Adjustments for a Half-Troll Mage:

Str: -1
Int: -1
Wis: -2
Dex: -3
Con: +1
Cha: -5

Hit dice: 12
Infravision: 3


But in the end, after stat gain, everything would end up at 18/100 before equipment bonuses, and thus all of these penalties would be neutralised?

Wouldn't this be a good way to get a "battle mage", with a few more hit points than other mages and ok all round-stats?
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Old October 1, 2009, 18:40   #10
Marble Dice
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The only reasons to pick mage in my opinion are the 0% fail, word of destruction, and banishment. If you want to emphasize the class's pathetic melee abilities, I'd pick maximized Dunadan instead:

Mage + Dunadan

STR -4
INT +5
WIS +2
DEX +3
CON +1

On average, half trolls will have an extra 51 hp at level 50 (not considering con bonuses which should probably be maxed with equip anyway).

Half trolls have a melee skill that's about 3 levels above what a dunadan mage would have, or ~7 levels over a high elf mage.

The half troll also starts with more strength, but they lack dex. They'll have more carrying capacity, but probably take just as long if not longer to get more blows. At the end of the game (with no stat bonuses), a non-maximize mage can get 4 blows with a 12lb weapon, while a maximize dunadan or high elf mage can use a 16lb weapon.

Playing any mage without maximize is going to increase the burden of getting stats from your equipment, a non-maximize character will need 10 points of spell stat to reach 0% fail, compared to only 4 or 5 points for a maximized high elf or dunadan mage.

I don't think a half-troll's early game advantages (barely more hp, slightly better melee skill) make up for the lack-luster mid to end-game performance, with or without maximize. If you really want a "battle mage" though, I'd just play rogue, ranger, or even priest.
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