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Old October 23, 2022, 22:25   #1
Nick
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Dumb Sil questions

First of an occasional series.

Despite the fact that I'm doing a rewrite of Sil, I haven't played a huge amount or got very deep. So sometimes I see stuff in the code that tells me something surprising about the gameplay, and I'd like a sanity check on whether it is indeed what happens.

First question - do Shovels/Mattocks of Belegost ever appear? This is Sil 1.3.
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Old October 24, 2022, 00:23   #2
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Mattocks yes. Shovels no.

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=23471 is one of the more recent Sil 1.3 dumps to contain one but they show up in dumps not infrequently as endgame gear.

Shovels I am going off my knowledge of the configuration files as negatives are less easy to prove.
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Old October 24, 2022, 01:21   #3
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So this makes perfect sense in Sil-Q, where
Code:
/* The "sval" codes for TV_DIGGING */
#define SV_SHOVEL 1
#define SV_MATTOCK 3
and
Code:
N:51:of Belegost
W:0:1:0:1000
C:0:0:0:0:0:0:1
T:20:3:3
so it's explicitly just mattocks. The thing that confused me was in Sil 1.3 the Belegost definition was
Code:
N:51:of Belegost
W:0:1:0:1000
C:0:0:0:0:0:0:1
T:20:2:3
but the svals were
Code:
#define SV_SHOVEL 1
#define SV_MATTOCK 7
which makes it look like they can never be generated.

I guess I'm missing something; won't be the first time.
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Old October 24, 2022, 02:30   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick View Post
So this makes perfect sense in Sil-Q, where
Code:
/* The "sval" codes for TV_DIGGING */
#define SV_SHOVEL 1
#define SV_MATTOCK 3
and
Code:
N:51:of Belegost
W:0:1:0:1000
C:0:0:0:0:0:0:1
T:20:3:3
so it's explicitly just mattocks. The thing that confused me was in Sil 1.3 the Belegost definition was
Code:
N:51:of Belegost
W:0:1:0:1000
C:0:0:0:0:0:0:1
T:20:2:3
but the svals were
Code:
#define SV_SHOVEL 1
#define SV_MATTOCK 7
which makes it look like they can never be generated.

I guess I'm missing something; won't be the first time.
Not scientific, but I never saw an ego shovel in vanilla Sil. Mattocks of Belegost were the only mattock ego. (There's an artefact mattock which is a load of fun.)
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Old October 24, 2022, 10:50   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick View Post
So this makes perfect sense in Sil-Q, where
Code:
/* The "sval" codes for TV_DIGGING */
#define SV_SHOVEL 1
#define SV_MATTOCK 3
and
Code:
N:51:of Belegost
W:0:1:0:1000
C:0:0:0:0:0:0:1
T:20:3:3
so it's explicitly just mattocks. The thing that confused me was in Sil 1.3 the Belegost definition was
Code:
N:51:of Belegost
W:0:1:0:1000
C:0:0:0:0:0:0:1
T:20:2:3
but the svals were
Code:
#define SV_SHOVEL 1
#define SV_MATTOCK 7
which makes it look like they can never be generated.

I guess I'm missing something; won't be the first time.
There is rather a lot of technical debt in 1.3. While I expressly didn't focus on remedying this in order to be able to move forward with Sil-Q, there are a number of areas of this type where I did a chunk of cleaning up, and a fair few bugs that were fixed also of varying levels of severity. Unfortunately I didn't track or document these as I didn't expect anyone trying to back port them to 1.3, and may in some cases have stuck them in larger commits along with other changes. However I think a number of the more serious ones including memory corruption and chasms cutting off access to down stairs were with the level generation so if you have replaced that it will help considerably.

In any case actual object generation is handled via the values in object.txt and the defines are irrelevant for it. The defines exist to allow various special behaviour attached to the svals and tvals, but I don't think there is any such attached to shovels or mattocks, only to their parent digger type. Your main weapon in dealing with this codebase is grep - it should be easy to determine if these defines are used anywhere.
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Old October 24, 2022, 14:09   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quirk View Post
In any case actual object generation is handled via the values in object.txt and the defines are irrelevant for it.
Thanks, of course I should have checked that

And yes, I am using grep *a lot*
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Old October 25, 2022, 03:11   #7
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Have you tried implementing the noise/scent "flows" yet? Because that looks like it would be unfun. Although I guess Angband maintainers have different notions of fun.
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Old October 25, 2022, 04:48   #8
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Have you tried implementing the noise/scent "flows" yet? Because that looks like it would be unfun. Although I guess Angband maintainers have different notions of fun.
I think I'm done with that, and it was actually quite fun

Least fun was smithing (not fully done yet).
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Old November 20, 2022, 21:13   #9
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Next question: Bane ability.

Do you choose what you're a bane of when you take the ability, and can you ever change?

EDIT: I now believe you make an irrevocable choice when you take the ability, but please tell me if I'm wrong.
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Last edited by Nick; November 20, 2022 at 21:23. Reason: More information
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Old November 21, 2022, 04:04   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick View Post
Next question: Bane ability.

Do you choose what you're a bane of when you take the ability, and can you ever change?

EDIT: I now believe you make an irrevocable choice when you take the ability, but please tell me if I'm wrong.

You can't change it once you've made your choice.
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