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Old March 26, 2012, 20:41   #21
caruso
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Added "slides" to the spreadsheet, which can drop you deeper than a trapdoor (actually I'm not yet familiar with vanilla trapdoors).
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Old March 30, 2012, 13:24   #22
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Will traps in v4 affect monsters?
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Old March 30, 2012, 14:01   #23
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Will traps in v4 affect monsters?
The short answer is: probably (eventually!)
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Old March 30, 2012, 21:09   #24
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The short answer is: probably (eventually!)

It would be great to be able to lead monsters into traps as part of strategy. Yay, a reason for not squelching ?TrapCreation!
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Old March 30, 2012, 22:09   #25
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It would be great to be able to lead monsters into traps as part of strategy. Yay, a reason for not squelching ?TrapCreation!
This also requires a new "set trap" command (presumably only for rogues). If we go the Sangband route, it also requires traps to be able to *contain* items - in S you "load" traps with whatever you want them to do to the monster (e.g. a weapon, a launcher+ammo, rocks, a potion of confusion, etc.). We could keep it simple though and just allow creation of standard trap types (pits at low level, explosive runes at high level etc.)
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Old March 31, 2012, 15:44   #26
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This also requires a new "set trap" command (presumably only for rogues).
Not necessarily, if you can only lead monsters to existing traps.

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If we go the Sangband route, it also requires traps to be able to *contain* items - in S you "load" traps with whatever you want them to do to the monster (e.g. a weapon, a launcher+ammo, rocks, a potion of confusion, etc.). We could keep it simple though and just allow creation of standard trap types (pits at low level, explosive runes at high level etc.)
I am not so sure that setting traps is actually an enjoyable tactic. It slows down the game considerably. I don't find waiting for monsters to wake up and come to you very enjoyable. Trying to play trap-setting rogues optimally isn't very fun for me.

IMO if traps are a limited resource, like when you can only use existing traps, leading monsters into traps is fun. If setting traps becomes the basic gameplay for rogues, it isn't.
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Old March 31, 2012, 16:14   #27
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I've found setting trap in NPP and FA to be enjoyable (when I remember to do so). You can use it as an attack, sneak around a corner and set a damaging-type trap, an escape, sneak around a corner an set a sleep trap, or as a way to deal deal with a sleeping foo without waking it, set trap between it and you and walk away (and you'll be alerted if it wakes and trips your trap).

Using trap to deal raw damage, while productive, isn't all that much fun, and NPP discourages this by allowing monsters to learn of your trap setting abilities and bypass your traps.

NPP rogues are highly competent even without the trap setting ability. Traps are just the icing on the cake as they become quite powerful later in the game.
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Old March 31, 2012, 17:14   #28
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Using trap to deal raw damage, while productive, isn't all that much fun
Yeah, maybe it's the raw damage traps that are problematic.

It's been a long time since I last tried trap-setting in S or O. I may well be wrong in my criticism. This is just something that should get some attention in playtesting. Luckily v4 developers can try trap setting in variants before deciding what to do with traps in v4.
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Old March 31, 2012, 17:19   #29
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Originally Posted by Mikko Lehtinen View Post
Yeah, maybe it's the raw damage traps that are problematic.

It's been a long time since I last tried trap-setting in S or O. I may well be wrong in my criticism. This is just something that should get some attention in playtesting. Luckily v4 developers can try trap setting in variants before deciding what to do with traps in v4.
Trap-setting in S becomes hugely useful for rogues - hounds cease to be a problem, and they soften up some of the toughest of the unintelligent monsters.
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Old April 1, 2012, 01:05   #30
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In my experience trap-setting has been mainly an early-game thing. and mainly interesting when the character is short of options. In those circumstances, I've found it great fun. A strictly limited number of active traps, too, means there's some art to it.
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