Angband.oook.cz
Angband.oook.cz
AboutVariantsLadderForumCompetitionComicScreenshotsFunniesLinks

Go Back   Angband Forums > Angband > Vanilla

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old July 19, 2018, 16:36   #721
wobbly
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 1,290
wobbly is on a distinguished road
Well I don't know about the 50% business but for the rest you're obviously not looking far. Crawl has sword n board vs 2-handers, sil has it, PCB has 2-hander, sword n board & 2-weapon. PCB has the opposite problem for most classes(the damage sucks due to accuracy). Saying it can't be done 'cause too much damage when there's a clear case of the opposite... (after all that, I actually don't like 2-weapons either).
wobbly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old July 19, 2018, 16:42   #722
wobbly
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 1,290
wobbly is on a distinguished road
Regarding the blows, seems odd to redo them and not fix the dagger issue. I mean if you aren't doing a major change and rebalance it doesn't matter but once you are you may as well fix some problems rather then just changing it to change it. Over the years I've got the impression people think this means O-combat which they don't like. PCB is however vanilla combat. Chris simply fixed the problematic part of the range.
wobbly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old July 19, 2018, 16:48   #723
Derakon
Prophet
 
Derakon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 8,385
Derakon is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by wobbly View Post
Well I don't know about the 50% business but for the rest you're obviously not looking far. Crawl has sword n board vs 2-handers, sil has it, PCB has 2-hander, sword n board & 2-weapon. PCB has the opposite problem for most classes(the damage sucks due to accuracy). Saying it can't be done 'cause too much damage when there's a clear case of the opposite... (after all that, I actually don't like 2-weapons either).
Heh, well, fair enough. I'll freely admit to not having done a broad survey on this topic.

The dagger issue can be fixed separately, assuming it needs to be fixed. It's a little weird, sure, but I actually kind of like the progression it creates where gradually bigger and bigger weapons become viable to wield.

That said, the fact that large weapons are de facto junk in the early game, and especially the fact that weak melee characters want big weapons while strong characters want small ones, are both suboptimal.
Derakon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 11:20   #724
wobbly
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 1,290
wobbly is on a distinguished road
It would certainly be more convenient for some stuff if every class is using the same blows calculation. If I want to re-calibrate to use weapon weights closer to something like Sil this is easy for a single class. The minimum weight for the mage calculation is 4lbs (I'm looking at 4.1.2) or 1 rapier weight. The weight is a straight divisor (of adj_str_blow[]). So perhaps if you hold the ratio of weight to the rapier the same, then you can hold the balance. Then the other classes have different minimum weights and it complicates matters. Maybe a bit, maybe a lot, I haven't done the maths.

Edit: So currently nothing in the 3-9 or 10-17 range of dex matters? or the 7-15 str range? Not sure I like how it is currently at all. hmm...
Edit 2: Was looking at the wrong numbers for str. It changes all along the range
Edit 3: Str is linear up to 17. Then increases 10/weight per /10 increase after 18 str?
Edit zillion: dex (starting at 3) is 7 zeros,7 1s, then 3,2,2,2,2,2,3,3,2,3 (the last is 3 11s)

Last edited by wobbly; Yesterday at 13:34.
wobbly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 13:56   #725
wobbly
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 1,290
wobbly is on a distinguished road
Ok so currently it's kinda adjusted str * class / weight across 12 bands of dex with moving a dex band shifting you up 1 str category. the numbers hold along a diagonal in the table. Close to anyway

Edit: Ok I get what that is trying to do now. I'll shuffle it off to it's own thread once I've looked at it a bit more.

Edit: Wow. That table is starting to make a huge amount of sense for a game with high str to dex variance (like say dice rolled stats) & an integer no. of blows.

Last edited by wobbly; Yesterday at 14:45.
wobbly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 01:15   #726
luneya
Adept
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 220
luneya is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
Heh, well, fair enough. I'll freely admit to not having done a broad survey on this topic.

The dagger issue can be fixed separately, assuming it needs to be fixed. It's a little weird, sure, but I actually kind of like the progression it creates where gradually bigger and bigger weapons become viable to wield.

That said, the fact that large weapons are de facto junk in the early game, and especially the fact that weak melee characters want big weapons while strong characters want small ones, are both suboptimal.
Yes, exactly. I agree that it's good having a progression from light weapons to heavy ones as your character gets stronger, but the situation of characters that don't get a second blow even with a dagger or whip breaks the model. Perhaps the best solution is to shift the formula so that every character--even a mage with minimum str--gets two blows with a minimum-weight weapon, and then blows increase as the player gets stronger (possibly increasing more for melee classes), and decrease with weapon weight. Or we could increase the penalty for having a weapon that's too heavy to be wielded effectively with a given strength, but tweaking the blows formula will probably work better, and we can always strengthen other damage sources and monster hps to compensate if the adjusted formulae make melee stronger across the board.
luneya is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 4 (2 members and 2 guests)
bunnies, EpicMan
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
I'm considering making a new Sil branch Quirk Sil 46 October 19, 2017 18:27
Trap/door feature branch Nick Vanilla 220 November 15, 2016 08:56
Curses feature branch Nick Vanilla 153 November 14, 2016 20:09
svn branch Pete Mack Vanilla 55 August 16, 2010 10:28
feature request: display magic item failure rates bebo Vanilla 5 February 12, 2009 20:35


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:07.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.