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Old June 11, 2018, 19:00   #611
Sky
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And 2 points for dwarven shield? Or is it always shield of preservatio?
Idk, to me its masochistic playing without artifacts, finding artifacts is what i play for.
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Old June 11, 2018, 21:36   #612
Pete Mack
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No, it's a shield of Elvenkind. You need rBase from somewhere. You don't need sustains as a mage. Though I suppose you can get really lucky with a crown of Magi (ESP).
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Old June 11, 2018, 21:48   #613
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OK, so when I said I liked the priest sharp weapon penalty, I guess I really meant that I liked them having some form of penalty to work around, and I don't really have good ideas for a replacement. Does anyone else? Do we need one? If we took it out, would blunt weapons need rebalancing?
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Old June 11, 2018, 22:12   #614
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick View Post
OK, so when I said I liked the priest sharp weapon penalty, I guess I really meant that I liked them having some form of penalty to work around, and I don't really have good ideas for a replacement. Does anyone else? Do we need one? If we took it out, would blunt weapons need rebalancing?
I have yet to hear any good arguments for penalties, save for the (in RPG terms) explanation that they do not receive weapons training. Otherwise, many religions in this world, and in RPG worlds, are really keen on making sure that the guys on the other team end up dead. And here's the thing: if you want them to have that penalty, don't give them blessed weapons to use!

To me, it makes no sense that mages can pick up daggers on L1 and priests cannot.

I do not think they need a penalty. They receive fewer hit points, and melee worse than Paladins, who in turn melee worse than warriors.

My two cents...
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Old June 11, 2018, 22:24   #615
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick View Post
OK, so when I said I liked the priest sharp weapon penalty, I guess I really meant that I liked them having some form of penalty to work around, and I don't really have good ideas for a replacement. Does anyone else? Do we need one? If we took it out, would blunt weapons need rebalancing?
I am all in favor of class restrictions that make for interesting decisions, ideally also while maintaining some degree of verisimilitude. I'm not convinced that the sharp weapons penalty does that. I'm sure we could have a long and productive thread arguing over what kinds of penalties/restrictions would make sense though!
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Old June 12, 2018, 15:08   #616
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Way, way minor glitch

OK, so dumber--than-a-sack-of-hammers me installs the feature magic branch and then spends the better part of eight )*&@@ HOURS trying to figure out why sdl isn't working to give me the *!*(!& graphics I use. And this morning, i realize I had simply not turned graphics option on once the program had loaded (default -msdl option is to "classic" ASCII.)

That's not my issue. I just want to be fair, open and honest about the fact I am a clueless moron, and perhaps provide some amusement in the process.

What I have noticed is that some items not previously covered by the tile/graphic interface now come up as straight ASCII things (spellbooks are just question marks.) Easy fix, minor tweak, I am sure, but still worth noting for folks like me that defy the purists and avoid ASCII interfaces.
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Old June 12, 2018, 15:31   #617
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Oh yes... don't use *destruction* with your Paladin in Single Combat mode unless you want to crash your game...
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Old June 12, 2018, 20:50   #618
Ingwe Ingweron
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Relative Speed Display Bug: Something is off in the relative speed display for monster recall. Current @ moves at 1.1x normal speed and is facing Khim, who moves at 1.0x normal speed. Monster recall says this "is 1.1x slower than you." Shouldn't that be "0.1x slower than you"?

Playing the feature branch, but I assume this bug will apply to the master branch as well.
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Old June 12, 2018, 21:28   #619
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Being a positive multiplier slower than something doesn't really make sense anyway. IMO it should tell you how many turns the monster gets compared to you, so in this case it would be 1/1.1 ~= ".9x slower than you". If you were at normal speed and the monster were at 1.1x normal speed, then it should say "1.1x faster than you."

Or it could just say "gets N turns for every one of your turns", though that's a bit more verbose.
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Old June 13, 2018, 14:40   #620
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Just beat M with HE mage, submitted on comp:
http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=21734

Some comments:

OldMage is squishy and dies easily. In return, he is gifted with awesome control and utility, and a wide array of damage spells to deal with most situations.
NewMage is just as squishy, but lost key spells at crucial timings. The experience was relatively unpleasant, to say the least. The pacing of the game felt very uneven, with a sharp difficulty spike entering the midgame, and persisting all the way until right before the end game, whereupon PC becomes more OP than OldMage.
For reference, I play mages with 98% spells/devices, 2% melee, 0% range.

0' - 300'
5/5 Easy
  • +++ DTraps is avilable at cLvl 1, and costs only 1 mana. Makes it more spammable, and eliminates early pit/poisontrap deaths
  • Detect Monsters now costs 2 mana and only available at cLvl 3. Turning a corner into Grip/Fang is now unavoidable, but happens within 5-10 minutes of the game anyway. ?Phase and running back to the staircase is possible, but not foolproof given their speed
300' - 900'
3/5 Annoying
  • + Losing CurePoison. Annoying, but non lethal. I used to mbd and R& (both macroed), which takes <5 seconds. Now I have to spamwait to wear off Pois, while !CLWing to top myself up, while watching for monsters. Annoying. !CCW and !NeutralizePois is not always available at this stage
  • + Losing SatisfyHunger. Annoying, but non lethal. It used to be when PermLight was available I could keep going without surfacing. Now I have to use a slot or two on food / ?SatisfyHunger (more weight), and keep food unsquelched (more junk on floor to parse). Although food is almost always available in the dungeon, it's annoying when you've spent alot of time clearing a vault and go hungry without food on the level
  • ++ Losing DisableTraps. There is no way to overcome traps if I haven't found devices or book2. If I want to walk through a corridor in a mini vault with a trapdoor or summontrap in the way, I used to disabletrap, or tunnel around the problem. Now I can do nothing except turn back, or roll the dice and pray
  • ++ Losing SpearOfLight. Ranged lighting into rooms and down corridors was a crucial spell in the mage repertoire for advance vision and gathering intel at all stages of the game. Now I'm crippled until I find devices, and they occupy a slot in my inventory nearly the entire game (unless I find 'A' enlightment)
  • ++ Losing StoneToMud. Terraforming the environment is another crucial mage spell, for gaining tactical advantage, taking shortcuts, getting to vaults, and is relevant at all stages of the game. Similar to previous I have to collect devices and occupies a slot in my bag the entire game, and I feel crippled without it
  • +++ Losing TeleSelf. This one is lethal. It used to be available at cLvl 7, now I need _Tele which costs 2900gp and isn't always available in the shop. The spell isn't just escape, it disengaged. Now if I get into a bad situation I spam ?Phase and run to staircase hoping whatever isn't fast and doesn't catchup
  • ++ Altered DamageSpells. I appreciate the different AOE profiles, but the cost and failrate is too high at this stage of the game to use reliably as a primary damage dealer (besides lightning down corridors). I was using HE and started with 18 base INT, so isn't too bad, but I can see the problem being worse for other classes. I probably used 80% MM, and FrostBolt/Fireball if I needed to burst a cat into running
  • ++ Improved Recharge. This softens the blow of the previous changes, since it seems much stronger, and I could recharge a device to 20+ charges sometimes. There is much higher reliance on devices throughout the game
  • ++ Lowered DetectTreasure level and manacost. Treasure hunting comes online earlier, and I can save a slot on -TreasureDetection
900' - 1800'
2/5 Risky
  • +++ Altered DamageSpells. I could use MM before, but it isn't good enough at this depth. Spells are still too expensive, and uniques are almost always avoided, except the lower orc uniques. I had difficulty with the larger depth native monsters, and I felt fully expended after every room. It does get better after I get some INT + Regen, but not much more. I had to fall back on devices most of the time
  • + Acid Spray. Barely used. Failrate too high, range too low. Used FrostBolt 98% of the time. By the time it becomes decent I had other options
  • + Disruption. Barely used. TO was good enough, and I like to think that if you're in a situation that requires you to TO a clump of enemies you probably screwed up anyway (short of summoners)
  • ++ Lowered TO level and manacost. Appreciated, makes this stage of the game bearable.
  • + Targeted Resistance. I liked spending less mana on targeting a specific resist e.g. RFire against Smaug. Now I have to spent 20sp to RAll. Not a big deal, but slightly annoying.
  • ++ TapEnergy. I love the concept behind this spell, but I couldn't make it work. Failrate is too high when I get it. When the failrate is low enough the amount of sp I get in return is too low to justify it's usage. I tried to continously recharge a stack of low wands + tap combo, but it's not worth the effort. It's easier to just R& in a safe spot, or !Mana during a fight.
1800' - 3000'
1/5 Deathtrap, I mostly ran down looking for book3.
  • +++ Losing Haste. This one is lethal, and huge. Without perm/temp speed, +10+ speed mobs are downright terrifying. Mages are already squishy enough, combine that with mobs that can run up to you and hit you for 3/4 hp. I mostly ran or TO'ed them away
  • ++ MeteorShower vs ManaBolt. I used to take down mobs using a combination of Haste + MeteorShower. ManaBolt feels like a poor replacement. The damage dice is actually almost similar to FrostBolt, but costs 3sp more. If the monster doesn't resist cold I just used FrostBolt, if it does and it's tough I just avoided. In fact I barely used ManaBolt throughout the whole run
  • DimensionDoor. I used it once and forgot about it. On hindsight it could've been a very useful spell, especially for diving, but the failrate and mana was too high upon learning it, and TeleSelf and Phase was good enough during fights.
  • ThrustAway. Didn't use it, didn't see a need.
3000' - 5000'
6/5 Overpowered
  • Banish and MBanish is available at 3000', 1000' earlier than previous. This greatly accelerates the endgame
  • ++++ FastCast. I love the concept of this spell, it gels so well with how mages are supposed to play. Unfortunately, it's only available so late in the game. But when I got it, it's so overpowered when used in conjunction with temp speed that I feel it should be nerfed. I used this together with ManaStorm to blow away all the end game content
  • Shockwave and Explosion. I've never used these spells.
Other:
  • + MageBook is same colour as RogueBook is same colour as potions. It's slightly confusing, and could do with differentiation, since the books are mutually exclusive
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