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Old May 27, 2022, 16:57   #21
Egavactip
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfy View Post
I don't use destruction for a few reasons. I hate the look of the dungeon afterwards, and there are usually better ways of reacting to his summons. TO combined with Banishment and Mass Banishment are sufficient.
You don't use it because you don't like the look of the dungeon afterwards. I just want to make sure I have that right.
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Old May 28, 2022, 06:33   #22
mrfy
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Originally Posted by Egavactip View Post
You don't use it because you don't like the look of the dungeon afterwards. I just want to make sure I have that right.
Yes. It destructs the dungeon...I believe there are better ways to escape harm without such effects.

I don't ignore them, if they're around I'll use them as a last resort but I don't carry them in my inventory.

Staffs of *Destruction* do turn into good arrows with the Create Arrow verse.
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Old May 30, 2022, 01:45   #23
Hounded
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Originally Posted by Egavactip View Post
You don't use it because you don't like the look of the dungeon afterwards. I just want to make sure I have that right.
Absurd I know but he's not alone. I'll only reluctantly and in extremis use destruction or earthquake effects. They're aesthetically jarring... in the randomly generated dungeon... that I'll never see again... which I should leave anyway 'cause it's too dangerous...
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Old May 30, 2022, 02:12   #24
ewert
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Originally Posted by Hounded View Post
Absurd I know but he's not alone. I'll only reluctantly and in extremis use destruction or earthquake effects. They're aesthetically jarring... in the randomly generated dungeon... that I'll never see again... which I should leave anyway 'cause it's too dangerous...
Yeah, I have that problem as well with earthquake and *destr staves or the spells ... and just monster in general ...

Oh look a vault. A greater chaos dragon? I have 200hp? I will just tp it out ...

You die.

I swear the biggest killer is the fixation error and not just letting it go, nuke them and flee, don't worry about collateral damage, just live to survive another day, but nooo..
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Old May 31, 2022, 00:14   #25
Estie
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Originally Posted by ewert View Post
I think AC was changed some at some point, I see huge gains with high AC currently in melee. An out of depth big body armor piece cuts down on melee damage immensely versus early uniques.

Funnily, a very good Mouse (-4 to -6) can actually be more dmg if it gives you enough more attacks per round, while boosting your stealth as well.
The problem with AC is that the biggest contributor, the body armor, is so heavy that I commonly would lose speed when wearing it. That is not acceptable as melee, even if meleeing is easier with AC despite the speed loss, as melee is the least relevant type of incoming damage.

So given that I refuse to wear a heavy piece of body armor (before I have acquired the str to do so without penalty or unless its something really exceptional like, say, elven bar chain mail with rpoison), my AC is never going to let me tank uniques. And if I have to play hit + phase anyway, I might as well do as much damage per round as possible at the cost of what remains of my paltry AC.

I squelch all "good" armor types as found. I wonder how many of you AC loving people have ever actually tried ignoring AC.
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Old May 31, 2022, 17:50   #26
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Originally Posted by Estie View Post
I squelch all "good" armor types as found. I wonder how many of you AC loving people have ever actually tried ignoring AC.
Having played since forever, in the past I have definitely mostly just ignored AC. As for the weight problem, I guess you carry much more other gear then, if I am playing a melee oriented class I don't have issues even early game.

And the difference is such that stacking the early finds such as prots/elemental rings until you find better stuff on top of basic good stuff plus a lucky body armor literally makes you take paltry damage from early uniques. On my melee chars after a slow or slow/speed combo, before Azog, most of them can just be facetanked and killed without using any healing in my current experience.

And I have lately played probably around a hundred or so early games in a the past couple months.

Sure if you play a ranged or caster, it is all plink and blink ignoring armor other than stuff that gives required resists or stats ...
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Old June 1, 2022, 04:44   #27
Estie
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Who isnt a ranger ? I always maintain a mundane ranged option regardless of class.
Now I am curious what from my wanted list you are not carrying when you can wear a heavy piece of armor and not get slowed down - I have trouble staying at 0 speed even naked.

Lets see: ~20 ?phase, ~20 ! cure wounds, 1-2 _teleportation as soon as I can afford them, _mapping come to mind. 2-3 slots worth of ammo also weigh in. Then at least 2 copies each of the early books. Other stuff can vary but shouldnt be as heavy as the listed items.
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Old June 1, 2022, 13:47   #28
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Any char pretty much will be a 16 base str, melee ones most often 17. Usually just 10 phase for melee guys, usually 15 !cures, 2-4 staves depending on char, 2-4 wands, 2 books etc. never more than 1 stack of ammo if it is a mainly melee guy, heck if you get lucky with a sling/ammo combo I am happy with low 20s.

Again, melee are just blackguard, warrior and paladin really. So it is never 3 separate books until later. I will definitely early on chuck on a 40+ ac body piece even if it drops me to 0.9 speed ...

Shrugs, high AC early characters can easily just facetank single line hordes, _CLW or cures if need be, slows for bigger meaner ones, et cetera ...
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Old June 5, 2022, 09:59   #29
wobbly
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Originally Posted by Estie View Post
The problem with AC is that the biggest contributor, the body armor, is so heavy that I commonly would lose speed when wearing it. That is not acceptable as melee, even if meleeing is easier with AC despite the speed loss, as melee is the least relevant type of incoming damage.
Sideways doesn't play vanilla much anymore but one thing I noticed watching him play is, he didn't seem to give a stuff whether he was encumbered or not. I altered how I played after seeing this and, its actually just a big relief not to care about -1 or -2 speed.
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