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Old March 22, 2012, 14:14   #11
Scatha
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Originally Posted by Mikko Lehtinen View Post
In Fay the flavour of Invisibility is "impossible to see". But since Stealth governs moving silently, IMO it's natural that it helps.
Sil works similarly. Indeed Stealth is perhaps primarily about noise, and uses a 'sound distance' in calculations (there are also separate noise-creating events), but it's abstracted away enough that we're happy giving visual clues as a bonus to the roll to notice. Player invisibility isn't currently in the game, but it might go in at some point, and has a natural mechanical interpretation: completely removing this visual bonus (compared to disguise, which halves it).
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Old March 22, 2012, 14:33   #12
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I've thought quite a bit about player invisibility also, and I've had some questions about how it's implemented in variants that use it.

1) What levels of awareness do monsters have? I can think of the following. a) asleep. b) awake but unaware of @'s existence. c) awake, aware of @'s existence, but not where @ currently is on the level. d) awake, aware of @ being nearby, but not exact location. e) awake, knowledgeable of @'s current location. Maybe there are others too?

2) Is invisibility binary, or can it have an associated skill level? If binary, do certain monsters have the see invisible skill? If not, do monsters use a separate statistic beside the awareness stat?

3) Will monsters attack an invisible monster if they can't see it? For example, an orc without the ability to see invisible wants to get to @ but there's a poltergeist in the square between. The orc shouldn't know of the ghost's existence, so it should try to move into that square, at which point it should attack the square. If this isn't the case, would it change if @ was invisible too and the orc tried to move into a square with an invisible monster?

4) Do monsters have the telepathy skill in the same way that @ does? In which case, invisibility is obsolete when telepathic monsters start showing up.
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Old March 22, 2012, 17:48   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzix View Post
I've thought quite a bit about player invisibility also, and I've had some questions about how it's implemented in variants that use it.

1) What levels of awareness do monsters have? I can think of the following. a) asleep. b) awake but unaware of @'s existence. c) awake, aware of @'s existence, but not where @ currently is on the level. d) awake, aware of @ being nearby, but not exact location. e) awake, knowledgeable of @'s current location. Maybe there are others too?
This seems like a comprehensive hierarchy to me, though I don't know if it's implemented anywhere.
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2) Is invisibility binary, or can it have an associated skill level? If binary, do certain monsters have the see invisible skill? If not, do monsters use a separate statistic beside the awareness stat?
In Sangband, which is the only variant I've played with player invisibility, it's a pval-set ability (like light radius). So items can increase your invisibility rating. I don't know how it's checked (but it would be easy to look up).
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3) Will monsters attack an invisible monster if they can't see it? For example, an orc without the ability to see invisible wants to get to @ but there's a poltergeist in the square between. The orc shouldn't know of the ghost's existence, so it should try to move into that square, at which point it should attack the square. If this isn't the case, would it change if @ was invisible too and the orc tried to move into a square with an invisible monster?
I think it's a pretty strong rule in most *bands that monsters don't attack each other. But I think a trampler should trample over a monster it can't see if it wants to move into that square.
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4) Do monsters have the telepathy skill in the same way that @ does? In which case, invisibility is obsolete when telepathic monsters start showing up.
Well of course at the moment ALL monsters in V/v4 have telepathy, because they always know where @ is when they're awake. But giving this ability to a small number of monsters, once your original hierarchy of awareness is implemented, would be cool IMO.
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Old March 22, 2012, 18:31   #14
Mikko Lehtinen
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I forgot to mention that in Ey and Fay invisibility goes off for a turn when you attack. I guess that's because of D&D influence.
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Old March 22, 2012, 18:53   #15
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Does that apply to when ghosts attack the player, too? There'd be a lot less random flailing in the game if the player could see ghosts after they attack him.
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Old March 22, 2012, 19:03   #16
Mikko Lehtinen
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No, it just applies to the player.

But there's another way to spot ghosts in Ey and Fay. If there's an invisible monster next to you and you succeed in a Perception roll, the grid turns blue. (Sangband stole this from Ey and developed it further, I think.)
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Old March 23, 2012, 00:32   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikko Lehtinen View Post
But there's another way to spot ghosts in Ey and Fay. If there's an invisible monster next to you and you succeed in a Perception roll, the grid turns blue. (Sangband stole this from Ey and developed it further, I think.)
Thumbs up. I noticed this while playing Fay, but just chalked it up to buginess. It's a nice feature.
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