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Old November 7, 2011, 20:24   #1
BlueFish
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Might monster fleeing be a bad thing?

I have a pet theory that monsters fleeing when they are low on HPs adds nothing to the game of any value, and only makes it slightly more annoying to kill things. Does that sound plausible to anybody else?
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Old November 7, 2011, 20:45   #2
bio_hazard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueFish View Post
I have a pet theory that monsters fleeing when they are low on HPs adds nothing to the game of any value, and only makes it slightly more annoying to kill things. Does that sound plausible to anybody else?
That sounds more like an "opinion" than a "theory".

It does slow the game some, but it also adds some variation to monster behavior. I would not want to see it disappear. However, I could definitely imagine more sophisticated behavior associated with monster fear. For example, have the whole group of snagas run away, rather than one at a time. Have monsters have a memory of YOU, and obviously over-matched intelligent monsters do things like aggravate/summon, or run towards higher level monsters, or even disappear up/down stairs or secret doors.
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Old November 8, 2011, 00:31   #3
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Running monsters have saved my behind any number of times, and I am still very new to Angband They block hallways, stay out of melee range (in the case when it's a fleeing unique), and just generally sow confusion that I can use in my favor
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Old November 8, 2011, 04:00   #4
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Originally Posted by bio_hazard View Post
That sounds more like an "opinion" than a "theory".
I guess I elevated it in my head to a "theory" because it seems like from a game design standpoint, monster fleeing due to low HP adds nothing desirable to the game. It's so ubiquitous though, and so annoying, I think there should be compelling reasons for it. I just don't see any such reason.

If playing Angband is like driving somewhere in a car, monster fleeing due to low HP is like having stoplights every block.
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Old November 8, 2011, 11:27   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueFish View Post
If playing Angband is like driving somewhere in a car, monster fleeing due to low HP is like having stoplights every block.
But stoplights do serve a purpose. The problem is weak AI. The light is programmed to turn red just as you approach it. I like the concept monsters fleeing. If nothing else it adds flavor. If would be nice if monsters could 'look' further than 1 turn into the future. Bio_Hazard had some ideas too.

Over time I've learned that if something wants to flee from me, I need to let it go. Eventually it will find it's way back to me, and then it will die (which makes the whole fleeing thing fairly useless).
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Old November 8, 2011, 11:40   #6
Mikko Lehtinen
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In Kamband, fleeing monsters may take the stairs and escape permanently!
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Old November 8, 2011, 13:20   #7
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I agree that fleeing is a little broken currently. In fact, in some cases it allows the players to kill something that would have killed them (by managing to get the monster fleeing and then use some archery against it and/or use the free turns to drink potions).

If I were going to rewrite things I would have monsters try to flee to stairs and escape (like Mikko has done), or at least not flee unless they move faster than the player. And I would certainly have them wait longer before coming back for more punishment, and take into account how hurt the player is also.

So I generally agree that this is an AI problem.
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Old November 8, 2011, 13:33   #8
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If I were going to rewrite things I would have monsters try to flee to stairs and escape (like Mikko has done)
Not me! I was talking about a really old variant Kamband that I discovered only recently. It's now one of my favourites.
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Old November 8, 2011, 13:52   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikko Lehtinen View Post
Not me! I was talking about a really old variant Kamband that I discovered only recently. It's now one of my favourites.
Oh heh, I misread your comment. Thanks for correcting my mistake
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Old November 8, 2011, 15:35   #10
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They should really get a small speed bonus when fleeing (do they already?)
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