What's the point of hold/sleep monster?

will_asher · June 22, 2021, 04:13

It is me, or are hold/sleep monster effects completely useless? It seems like they wear off almost immediately.

archolewa · June 22, 2021, 04:32

Hold monster wears off as soon as you attack an enemy, which might be why it's wearing off so fast for you.

I've found Hold Monster to be situational but useful in the early game if I need to put some distance between myself and a powerful enemy, but either want to save Phase Door scrolls (because I'm playing without the town) or don't feel safe phasing, for fear of ending up someplace nasty. It's especially useful to get some distance from orc uniques in a long corridor. It's basically an early game escape.

Never used Sleep Monster.

ewert · June 22, 2021, 06:29

Both can be used to run away from packs in corridors. Neither one is for fighting. A stave of either one in a corridor is pretty strong escape, also if you happen to be caught in a large room where phase door has trouble getting you out, a stave of either one can be an easier escape.

Nowadays with no-selling, I do often carry a sleep one with stealthy characters during the early levels.

Selkie · June 22, 2021, 14:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by will_asher

It is me, or are hold/sleep monster effects completely useless? It seems like they wear off almost immediately.

I vote for useless simply because I don't use them. Save the inventory slots for slow and stun

AceRimmer · June 22, 2021, 16:10

I like them as an early-game escape, too. But I do wonder why both exist. Does somebody remember why Hold Monster was added, when Sleep Monster already existed?

sffp · June 22, 2021, 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by will_asher

It is me, or are hold/sleep monster effects completely useless? It seems like they wear off almost immediately.

If you get caught in a room with a mob, a staff of sleep monsters could be your only salvation
They show up far earlier than teleport-level or destruction

Sky · June 22, 2021, 21:13

sleep monsters (staff) only works against breeders. sleep monsters the targeted spell is garbage.
mass sleep comes at a time when you can fireball, so again, useless.
hold monsters can hold 1 mob long enough for you to run away, if you have a corridor you can run to. It also works on the horrible Smeagol.

gglibertine · June 23, 2021, 12:22

Sleep monster is incredibly useful for monsters that breed or TP. Hold monster is really only useful in the early game.

June 22, 2021, 04:13	#1
will_asher DaJAngband Maintainer Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 1,124 Donated: $10	What's the point of hold/sleep monster? It is me, or are hold/sleep monster effects completely useless? It seems like they wear off almost immediately. __________________ Will_Asher aka LibraryAdventurer My old variant DaJAngband: http://sites.google.com/site/dajangbandwebsite/home (defunct and so old it's forked from Angband 3.1.0 -I think- but it's probably playable...)

June 22, 2021, 21:13	#7
Sky Veteran Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: London-ish Age: 49 Posts: 2,067	sleep monsters (staff) only works against breeders. sleep monsters the targeted spell is garbage. mass sleep comes at a time when you can fireball, so again, useless. hold monsters can hold 1 mob long enough for you to run away, if you have a corridor you can run to. It also works on the horrible Smeagol. __________________ "i can take this dracolich"

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June 22, 2021, 04:32	#2
archolewa Swordsman Join Date: Feb 2019 Location: Midwest Age: 33 Posts: 395	Hold monster wears off as soon as you attack an enemy, which might be why it's wearing off so fast for you. I've found Hold Monster to be situational but useful in the early game if I need to put some distance between myself and a powerful enemy, but either want to save Phase Door scrolls (because I'm playing without the town) or don't feel safe phasing, for fear of ending up someplace nasty. It's especially useful to get some distance from orc uniques in a long corridor. It's basically an early game escape. Never used Sleep Monster.

June 22, 2021, 06:29	#3
ewert Knight Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 632	Both can be used to run away from packs in corridors. Neither one is for fighting. A stave of either one in a corridor is pretty strong escape, also if you happen to be caught in a large room where phase door has trouble getting you out, a stave of either one can be an easier escape. Nowadays with no-selling, I do often carry a sleep one with stealthy characters during the early levels.

June 22, 2021, 16:10	#5
AceRimmer Scout Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 35	I like them as an early-game escape, too. But I do wonder why both exist. Does somebody remember why Hold Monster was added, when Sleep Monster already existed?

June 23, 2021, 12:22	#8
gglibertine Adept Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Portsmouth, UK Age: 55 Posts: 216	Sleep monster is incredibly useful for monsters that breed or TP. Hold monster is really only useful in the early game.

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