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Old August 13, 2011, 13:49   #1
Shockbolt
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Removal suggestions

Removal suggestion 1: Angels

I never quite got the link between Angband and Angels ingame, perhaps it would be wise to drop those religious creatures out of the game, in order to creep closer to the "middle-earth feel"?

I know some of you will say: if we drop those then we need to drop these and those also. But right now, I can only think of those with a religious link within the game, everything else that is non-angband is either brought in from myths or the like.
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Old August 13, 2011, 14:12   #2
Timo Pietilš
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shockbolt View Post
Removal suggestion 1: Angels

I never quite got the link between Angband and Angels ingame, perhaps it would be wise to drop those religious creatures out of the game, in order to creep closer to the "middle-earth feel"?

I know some of you will say: if we drop those then we need to drop these and those also. But right now, I can only think of those with a religious link within the game, everything else that is non-angband is either brought in from myths or the like.
No more than angels. Angels are just part of one of main religious beliefs, just like titans were in their time. Both mythical creatures from religious fairy tales.

OTOH your point them not being Tolkenian monsters is a valid one, and many variants have replaced them with Ainur. I would have nothing against changing angels to ainur.
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Old August 13, 2011, 15:36   #3
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Yeah, replacing them would work better than a pure removal I guess.


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Originally Posted by Timo Pietilš View Post
No more than angels. Angels are just part of one of main religious beliefs, just like titans were in their time. Both mythical creatures from religious fairy tales.

OTOH your point them not being Tolkenian monsters is a valid one, and many variants have replaced them with Ainur. I would have nothing against changing angels to ainur.
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Old August 14, 2011, 03:59   #4
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Originally Posted by Shockbolt View Post
Yeah, replacing them would work better than a pure removal I guess.
I agree with that, if mainly because the angels are interesting monsters. Resist all brands/slays, high ac, deeply asleep (except for the uniques), and they also have interesting attacks including tele-to and tele-away, depending on the angel.

Gabriel and Azriel are also very interesting. Azriel, is the 2nd most likely cause of death for me, right behind drolem. Uriel is just another fire based unique, like Lernean hydra, phoenix, vargo, gothmog, and lungorthin. He's the least interesting angel by far. So I would greatly oppose removing the angels. However, I don't care at all if they're renamed.
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Old August 14, 2011, 18:38   #5
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Who would have the powers/authority to decide to permanently rename the various angelic creatures in Angband, into something more inline with Tolkien?
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Old August 14, 2011, 19:37   #6
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Who would have the powers/authority to decide to permanently rename the various angelic creatures in Angband, into something more inline with Tolkien?
That would be Takkaria. He is the maintainer, so his word is decisive one over everybody else.

While angband is currently developed by a team, he is (or at least should be) the one with the power to make decisions.
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Old August 15, 2011, 13:27   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timo Pietilš View Post
That would be Takkaria. He is the maintainer, so his word is decisive one over everybody else.

While angband is currently developed by a team, he is (or at least should be) the one with the power to make decisions.
Correct. Takkaria is currently on vacation, but we can ask for a decision afterwards. The best way to do this is for somebody to put a new version of monster.txt on github and submit a "pull request" titled "New names for angels", or similar. Then any of the devteam can simply say "takkaria: ok for me to merge pull request #xyz?", with a link to the details of the proposed changes.

In case anyone is interested, this is the best way to get anything changed in the game.
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Old August 21, 2011, 18:29   #8
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Originally Posted by Magnate View Post
Correct. Takkaria is currently on vacation, but we can ask for a decision afterwards. The best way to do this is for somebody to put a new version of monster.txt on github and submit a "pull request" titled "New names for angels", or similar. Then any of the devteam can simply say "takkaria: ok for me to merge pull request #xyz?", with a link to the details of the proposed changes.

In case anyone is interested, this is the best way to get anything changed in the game.
NPP (thanks to Anssi Ralema) has already replaced Angels with Ainur. I will by happy to put together a patch for this if Takkaria wants the change (In addition to monster.txt, there are summon angel spells in the source code and in various tables like the knowledge screens that need to be re-done as well)
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Old August 22, 2011, 03:39   #9
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Originally Posted by nppangband View Post
NPP (thanks to Anssi Ralema) has already replaced Angels with Ainur. I will by happy to put together a patch for this if Takkaria wants the change (In addition to monster.txt, there are summon angel spells in the source code and in various tables like the knowledge screens that need to be re-done as well)
won't a find-replace of the word 'angel' with 'ainur' work on a first go?
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Old August 22, 2011, 06:54   #10
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won't a find-replace of the word 'angel' with 'ainur' work on a first go?
Not on things like archons, and cherubim. There may be other angels without the word angel in their name as well but those are what I could think of right away.
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