Blackguards: 4.2.1 to 4.2.2 (and beyond?)

[Estie]

Originally Posted by wobbly

???

To prevent the loss you kill more things. SPs go up when you hit or kill things.

You cant cast spells in wolf form.

[wobbly]

Originally Posted by Estie

You cant cast spells in wolf form.

Oh ok that makes sense. I've suggested elsewhere that being able to cast as werewolf would be fun, I think others suggested it would be OP, which is probably true. In my experience being a werewolf is worth not casting, up until the point you have to heal.

[archolewa]

Originally Posted by wobbly

???

To prevent the loss you kill more things. SPs go up when you hit or kill things.

I think it also goes up when you take damage.

[Pete Mack]

The thing is, a pure dive involves avoiding things, not going out of your way to kill them. I had a similar problem with blackguard--detouring to wipe out a bunch of lost orcs and the like.

[Estie]

Originally Posted by DavidMedley

But other concerns won out over that, mainly wanting to reward players for aggressive, conflict seeking play and reduce the incentive to rest to full HP at every opportunity.

This is counter to everything that is (vanilla) Angband. I feel that if this design approach be pursued, it should be under a differnt tag; i.e. forked into a new variant.

What exactly is your problem witch resting up at every opportunity ?
The usual argument is that rest periods are boring, forcing inactive wait times that nobody likes. But that is of no concern in Angband, because while a rest may last 100s of turns, it only is 1 click, 1 second playtime.

[archolewa]

Its an effort to introduce a different playstyle. It says, "every classs is incentivized to do X. What if there was a class that had incentives to *not* do X? Does that introduce new strategies? Give veterans a new way of playing the game? Does it crash and burn?"

Petsinally, I don't think there's anything wrong with that, and creating an entire variant for one class that plays differently from the others seems silly. Besides, I don't find the basic avoidance game to be that different from other classes. Regardless of class you still want to kill killable things for loot and experience while avoiding unkillable things. Blackguards just give you some incentive for being a bit strategic about which killable things you kill first.

If anything, Blackguards are better at avoidance than warriors or paladins before you get a Rod of Detection because they have a better detection spell.

[DavidMedley]

Originally Posted by Estie

What exactly is your problem witch resting up at every opportunity ?

It's not fun.

[mrfy]

Originally Posted by DavidMedley

It's not fun.

Life is not fun.

But seriously, I tried running a blackguard character again. It's just not my style even though I feel like it should be. I like a combination of melee and distance attacks via ammo or spells. I just can't help resting to regain hit points. I don't care about turn counts or number of key presses or clicks. I just want my hit points and spell points to be max when meeting the next group of monsters.

There are plenty of monsters who should be attacked from afar, with quiver ammo or spells. Those who drain stats or life, for example. This class doesn't do much to prevent those kind of attacks.

And I really don't like not being able to cast spells while transformed. (I understand why that's a limitation, but it constrains the decision to switch into the form.

[Estie]

Originally Posted by archolewa

Its an effort to introduce a different playstyle. It says, "every classs is incentivized to do X. What if there was a class that had incentives to *not* do X? Does that introduce new strategies? Give veterans a new way of playing the game? Does it crash and burn?"

Petsinally, I don't think there's anything wrong with that, and creating an entire variant for one class that plays differently from the others seems silly. Besides, I don't find the basic avoidance game to be that different from other classes. Regardless of class you still want to kill killable things for loot and experience while avoiding unkillable things. Blackguards just give you some incentive for being a bit strategic about which killable things you kill first.

If anything, Blackguards are better at avoidance than warriors or paladins before you get a Rod of Detection because they have a better detection spell.

It doesnt carsh nor burn. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it. It has its fans, veterans or newbies. But it is different from what Angabnd has been for decades. If you want an action band, by all means go ahead, but please find your own name for it.

[Estie]

Originally Posted by DavidMedley

It's not fun.

That made it clear - Now I understand.