Angband.oook.cz
Angband.oook.cz
AboutVariantsLadderForumCompetitionComicScreenshotsFunniesLinks

Go Back   Angband Forums > Angband > Development

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old June 29, 2011, 02:53   #11
jens
Swordsman
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Göteborg, Sweden
Posts: 348
jens is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
One thing would be to fix the chain-healing problem with deep uniques. IIRC truly smart monsters are basically unkillable because the odds of them not healing long enough for you to kill them are so close to nil.

It's been a long time since I played with smart monster spellcasting, though.
If that problem has been there for a long time, then it's never really been a problem as I see it, just a design choice. Granted they are a bit tougher to kill, but that just means you take them later. On the other hand I can agree that they might become more interesting if they did alternate in some other, but also 'smart' way :-)
jens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 29, 2011, 06:02   #12
Derakon
Prophet
 
Derakon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 8,917
Derakon is on a distinguished road
My memory of trying to kill deep uniques with smart spellcasting on was, as I said, that they were unkillable. You're generally lucky to be dealing more than 600 damage/round; their healing spells easily recovered more than that much and they busted those out as soon as they got below maybe 25%.

Again, it's been a long time since I played with smart spellcasting on, so someone should probably verify this, but unkillable monsters strikes me as a good reason to label an option as broken.
Derakon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old June 29, 2011, 07:48   #13
jens
Swordsman
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Göteborg, Sweden
Posts: 348
jens is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
My memory of trying to kill deep uniques with smart spellcasting on was, as I said, that they were unkillable. You're generally lucky to be dealing more than 600 damage/round; their healing spells easily recovered more than that much and they busted those out as soon as they got below maybe 25%.

Again, it's been a long time since I played with smart spellcasting on, so someone should probably verify this, but unkillable monsters strikes me as a good reason to label an option as broken.
Well, I'll play with it on, and try to see if that is still around. If I remember correctly there were a few that bothered me, but only those which had a casting freaquency of 1 in 2, but even thous get a longer gap between healings now and then...
jens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 29, 2011, 11:19   #14
jens
Swordsman
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Göteborg, Sweden
Posts: 348
jens is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnate View Post
That seems WAD. HT-Wa has no problem, mage can't open stuck doors (but has stone to mud spell).
Tried this a bit more today with a new mage (STR 13). Even if I use only one spike on a door, I can't open it. Encountering a stuck door now and then that I can't open is OK I guess, but not beeing able to open even the lowest level of stuck is not. This means that the value of jamming doors becomes much less, because in several situations were it would be a good play, you also risk locking yourself into the dungeon (I believe this mechanism is something that will almost only be used in the first trip down, so no, mages do not have Stone to Mud).

Another issue is that if there is a break point were it's possible, but takes many tries, then we get the tedium effect of having to bash a lot of times. I didn't check the code thoroughly, but I did see that there is always a chance to bash down doors. But this chance is 1 in 100. That is pretty useless. OK I might not get locked in, but bashing is a very boring command since you cannot use it efficiently (you cannot repeat it automatically).

My belief is that this has been balanced based on super human stats. Which is inherently wrong. Game mechanics for use in the early game should be balanced based on stats 3-18.
jens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 29, 2011, 21:13   #15
Magnate
Angband Devteam member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: London, UK
Posts: 5,057
Magnate is on a distinguished road
Send a message via MSN to Magnate Send a message via Yahoo to Magnate
Quote:
Originally Posted by jens View Post
Well, I'll play with it on, and try to see if that is still around. If I remember correctly there were a few that bothered me, but only those which had a casting freaquency of 1 in 2, but even thous get a longer gap between healings now and then...
The solution to unkillable self-healers (and to fixing the smart_ai problems in general) is monster mana. We already have this in a branch on github, so it's definitely something we could bring into 3.4. It would enable a large number of ai improvements, once monsters have finite mana.
__________________
"3.4 is much better than 3.1, 3.2 or 3.3. It still is easier than 3.0.9, but it is more convenient to play without being ridiculously easy, so it is my new favorite of the versions." - Timo Pietila
Magnate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 29, 2011, 21:14   #16
Magnate
Angband Devteam member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: London, UK
Posts: 5,057
Magnate is on a distinguished road
Send a message via MSN to Magnate Send a message via Yahoo to Magnate
This is fair enough. I'd be happy to see bashing made a *bit* easier at lower levels. This is artes's work, so I'd be interested in their views ....
__________________
"3.4 is much better than 3.1, 3.2 or 3.3. It still is easier than 3.0.9, but it is more convenient to play without being ridiculously easy, so it is my new favorite of the versions." - Timo Pietila
Magnate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 6, 2011, 21:19   #17
artes
Adept
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: In his house at R'lyeh
Posts: 113
artes is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnate View Post
This is fair enough. I'd be happy to see bashing made a *bit* easier at lower levels. This is artes's work, so I'd be interested in their views ....
Oh, I didn't change bashing for players. It should be as before, if no one else has changed it. I didn't change the mathematical difficulty for monsters either. I only made it so that monsters sometimes will have to bash on the door more than one time, each time decreasing the door power. This does not concern players, who can bash down the door in one turn regardless of door power.
artes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 7, 2011, 00:11   #18
jens
Swordsman
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Göteborg, Sweden
Posts: 348
jens is on a distinguished road
It does need to be adjusted for players. My current warrior with 18/50 in str has occasional problems, one door took 25, another 29 turns. All players with str in the normal range (i.e. very good D&D stats or good stats from the roller) get stuck. Only players with superhuman str (i.e. more than 18) can count on bashing down doors.
jens is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Notes on latest commits jens Development 3 June 1, 2011 15:08
Can't use \r in keymap in latest nightly Max Stats Development 4 March 1, 2011 18:22
Latest Progress starstealer AAR 3 July 8, 2010 18:44
Here's my latest attempt, could use some advice though. ZenDragon AAR 14 February 26, 2010 00:55
Possible bug in latest version TJS Vanilla 25 December 11, 2009 22:04


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:30.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.