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Old June 11, 2011, 21:11   #11
takkaria
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnate View Post
http://www.foxitsoftware.com/products/reader/I thought you wanted the HTML help to be available in-game? Isn't that what the desire for context-sensitive help is about? Did you mean you just wanted to get rid of the help menu?
What I mean by context-sensitive help is smaller snippets of information available when they would be useful - either using '?' or in a term window. Maybe the player can hit '?' in-game and the game will pull up relevant help for the last 5 things that happened, something like that. Either way, the current help reader would be junked, since we wouldn't be browsing massive help files anymore.

I'd like context-sensitive help but not displayed using the current (kind of icky) help reader. I think it's pretty unreadable and it's more useful to provide shorter help and leave long help to PDF/HTML.
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Old June 11, 2011, 21:13   #12
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To be honest I find the in game help occasionally useful, more so when I hadn't played as much, to find out commands etc. So if the in game help is scraped perhaps a list of commands and descriptions should be avaliable in game to avoid the hassle of having to open a large pdf in another window.

@Magnate: Thanks for the link, I'll see what I can add.

@fph: any suggestions, patches, comments etc are welcome thanks.
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Old June 11, 2011, 22:16   #13
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Originally Posted by qwerty View Post
To be honest I find the in game help occasionally useful, more so when I hadn't played as much, to find out commands etc. So if the in game help is scraped perhaps a list of commands and descriptions should be avaliable in game to avoid the hassle of having to open a large pdf in another window.
Aye, we should definitely keep an in-game list of commands.
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Old June 12, 2011, 08:16   #14
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Originally Posted by takkaria View Post
Aye, we should definitely keep an in-game list of commands.
I would prefer keeping in-game help as well. PDF is good format for manuals, but for help I think you need lighter version, all pdf-readers are bloatware compared to angband (even that mentioned foxit reader). They also have absolutely nothing to offer over over good in-game help.
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Old June 13, 2011, 21:22   #15
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Okay so I've been putting the online docs into their own pdf and slowly adding bits into the help and cross-referencing/indexing as I go. The original link is still good to reach the files though(I have rearranged a little and the readme's are NOT up to date but I think it is pretty intuitive).
Either way there isn't much more done on the help but the manual is about half done (ignoring indexing/crossrefing obviously).

I'm not entirely sure what wants to be added all the time so any hints or suggestions are appreciated.
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Old June 13, 2011, 22:44   #16
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Originally Posted by qwerty View Post
Okay so I've been putting the online docs into their own pdf and slowly adding bits into the help and cross-referencing/indexing as I go. The original link is still good to reach the files though(I have rearranged a little and the readme's are NOT up to date but I think it is pretty intuitive).
Either way there isn't much more done on the help but the manual is about half done (ignoring indexing/crossrefing obviously).

I'm not entirely sure what wants to be added all the time so any hints or suggestions are appreciated.
Ok, this is from takkaria on IRC:

16:07 < takkaria> magnate: I guess I'd like to see one user guide which is good for everyone and then game-generated spoilers

... which means that the spoily bits of the online manual (the long lists of items, ego types, etc.) should be left out of the PDF. This will also make it easier to keep it up to date, as those lists would go out of date really easily.

I'll have a look at the weekend and leave some detailed comments. Keep up the good work!
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Old June 18, 2011, 20:22   #17
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Ok, so all the online manual apart from the appendicies is now up and running, I just need to work out how, what and where to try and merge everything across.

As before the link on the first page is still good.
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Old June 18, 2011, 22:23   #18
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Originally Posted by qwerty View Post
Ok, so all the online manual apart from the appendicies is now up and running, I just need to work out how, what and where to try and merge everything across.

As before the link on the first page is still good.
What do you mean by "merge everything across"?
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Old June 19, 2011, 20:02   #19
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What do you mean by "merge everything across"?
Well I was under the impression that the online files were more up-to date than the txt files, so the info from online needed to be added into the main help. Please correct me if this is wrong or if I have misinterpreted.
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Old June 19, 2011, 21:43   #20
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Originally Posted by qwerty View Post
Well I was under the impression that the online files were more up-to date than the txt files, so the info from online needed to be added into the main help. Please correct me if this is wrong or if I have misinterpreted.
Hmmm. Fizzix updated the help files quite significantly for 3.2.0 (we were finally able to remove the "documentation is out-of-date" warning from the splash screen). James Doyle did a ton of work on the online manual, but I think he stopped a while ago.

I'm going to d/l your files now so I'll reply later about whether there's a lot of stuff that ought to be updated. I think takkaria wants to rip out (most of) the in-game help text anyway, so that people will use the new PDF or HTML help.

Did you go LaTeX in the end? If not, what's the master format? (i.e. the one from which the others are derived)

EDIT: I see you did use tex. Excellent.

EDIT2: I am worried now. Your PDF starts with "New features in 3.0.8", but 308.txt was removed in 3.2.0 and replaced by 320.txt. So I am worried that you have been using an old version. This would explain why you feel that the in-game help is out of date. I can't see a customise.tex in your repository (customise.txt was a new help file for 3.2.0), so I suspect you have used files from an older version (3.1.2 or earlier).

That said, it's an excellent piece of work - it's a really nice-looking PDF. If you can bring it up-to-date with the txt files in the latest nightly, that would be excellent. (Don't worry about doing 320.txt, because that will be replaced by 330.txt).
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Last edited by Magnate; June 19, 2011 at 21:53.
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