Angband.oook.cz
Angband.oook.cz
AboutVariantsLadderForumCompetitionComicScreenshotsFunniesLinks

Go Back   Angband Forums > Angband > Development

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old July 6, 2011, 23:20   #21
bulian
Adept
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 162
bulian is on a distinguished road
Can level feelings please be normalized to player speed? In 3.2, with +10 speed you have to make twice as many actions before the level feelings kick in. The expression I have in mind, using Magnate's formula, would be:

(20+d20-M20)*10/EPT, where EPT = energy per turn.

Note the NPP stochastic approach should not have this problem.
bulian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 7, 2011, 00:20   #22
jens
Swordsman
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Göteborg, Sweden
Posts: 348
jens is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnate View Post
There's already an option for people who want to do that.
I mean, when playing with level feelings, would it be OK if they are reworded so the old messages are changed as well, i.e. superb, excelent, very good, etc. As it stands today they don't really fit in the pattern, but I left them in for nostalgia.
jens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 7, 2011, 00:49   #23
Magnate
Angband Devteam member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: London, UK
Posts: 5,057
Magnate is on a distinguished road
Send a message via MSN to Magnate Send a message via Yahoo to Magnate
Quote:
Originally Posted by bulian View Post
Can level feelings please be normalized to player speed? In 3.2, with +10 speed you have to make twice as many actions before the level feelings kick in. The expression I have in mind, using Magnate's formula, would be:

(20+d20-M20)*10/EPT, where EPT = energy per turn.

Note the NPP stochastic approach should not have this problem.
Neither does the 3.3 RC series. At some point, by accident I think, the delay to level feelings went away. Probably my fault, but no idea how I did it without noticing.
__________________
"3.4 is much better than 3.1, 3.2 or 3.3. It still is easier than 3.0.9, but it is more convenient to play without being ridiculously easy, so it is my new favorite of the versions." - Timo Pietila
Magnate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 7, 2011, 02:00   #24
Max Stats
Swordsman
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 324
Max Stats is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnate View Post
Neither does the 3.3 RC series. At some point, by accident I think, the delay to level feelings went away. Probably my fault, but no idea how I did it without noticing.
I call it a feature, not a bug. Tying feelings for the current level to how long you spent on the previous level never made any sense to start with. Delaying feelings until you spend time (or turns, or squares explored, or whatever) on the current level does make sense, if you want to stick it to the scummers. But I vote against going back to the old way no matter what.
Max Stats is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 7, 2011, 05:58   #25
bulian
Adept
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 162
bulian is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Tying feelings for the current level to how long you spent on the previous level never made any sense to start with. Delaying feelings until you spend time (or turns, or squares explored, or whatever) on the current level does make sense, i
My previous post was imprecise. I was trying to describe the old behavior where turn count on the previous level did not scale with speed. I would consider this buggy. Whether the level feeling depends on the amount of time on the previous level or amount of time on the current level, the timer should be set to player turns, not game turns. In my opinion at least.
bulian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 7, 2011, 10:13   #26
jens
Swordsman
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Göteborg, Sweden
Posts: 348
jens is on a distinguished road
I do feel some anti-scum measure needs to be set before 3.3

Magnate, when I fiddled with the feelings the old turn check had been removed, I assumed there was some reason behind it (like variables having moved, been renamed etc. making it harder to implement). So I never tried to put it back.

In 3.2 the code was in: in src/generate.c, generate_cave
jens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 11, 2011, 11:12   #27
jens
Swordsman
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Göteborg, Sweden
Posts: 348
jens is on a distinguished road
Hey fizzix, I just reviewed your feelings branch, nice work :-) Two comments (I have just read the code, not actually tested it)


1) Two messages are too long, so they will in some conjunctions require two rows. Both of these are 39 chars, and need to be reduced to 37 to be able to fit.

there may be something worthwhile here.
there may not be much interesting here.


2) Now the two base feelings, for when you have not delayed long enough, will never be printed. These could be cleaned away, and the code modified to suit.

obj: "Looks like any other level."
mon: "You are still uncertain about this place"
jens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 11, 2011, 15:31   #28
Magnate
Angband Devteam member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: London, UK
Posts: 5,057
Magnate is on a distinguished road
Send a message via MSN to Magnate Send a message via Yahoo to Magnate
Quote:
Originally Posted by jens View Post
2) Now the two base feelings, for when you have not delayed long enough, will never be printed. These could be cleaned away, and the code modified to suit.

obj: "Looks like any other level."
mon: "You are still uncertain about this place"
?? So what happens if I press ctrl-f before I've got a feeling? Does anything get printed?
__________________
"3.4 is much better than 3.1, 3.2 or 3.3. It still is easier than 3.0.9, but it is more convenient to play without being ridiculously easy, so it is my new favorite of the versions." - Timo Pietila
Magnate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 11, 2011, 18:46   #29
fizzix
Prophet
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, US
Posts: 3,002
fizzix is on a distinguished road
@jens, I'm not worried about the length for the following reason. You will usually only see half the level feeling at a time. The only way you will see both is you ask to repeat the feeling (command ^f) or reopen the game, where you are presented with the level feeling at the start. The fact that these can overflow to two lines does not bother me at all.

That being said, I'm perfectly fine with them being rewritten to be smaller, or incorporating someone else's suggestions.

@magnate: The way it works is that you *always* get a monster feeling on descending. If you ^f before you've explored enough you get just the monster feeling. If you explore around, at some point, you will get an object feeling. At this point you will be presented with the object feeling only. If you ask for a feeling after this point you will get both the level feeling and the object feeling, with the appropriate joining phrase.

Now you can also add a 3rd or 4th feeling as more exploration is done. It's pretty easy to add additional feeling types (pits, vaults, artifacts etc.). These will certainly be more than one line though.
fizzix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 11, 2011, 20:33   #30
CJNyfalt
Swordsman
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 289
CJNyfalt is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
I'm increasingly of the opinion that level feelings, aside from the "special" feeling, are a misfeature and should simply be done away with. If the game isn't making interesting levels, then the solution isn't to tell the player; the solution is to fix the level generator.
I agree. There is no point of generating levels that are too boring for the players.
CJNyfalt is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Level feelings not quite there Max Stats Vanilla 3 June 16, 2011 13:49
Level feelings again (to use at all?) Chud Vanilla 10 March 5, 2011 16:11
New approach to level feelings miyazaki Vanilla 8 October 15, 2009 23:02
Level Feelings patch CunningGabe Development 3 March 3, 2009 15:59
Level feelings curinor Variants 0 April 30, 2008 21:17


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 20:23.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.