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Old June 27, 2011, 16:03   #1
jens
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to-hit

Well, getting more technical, so starting a similar thread here...

Ideas for improving the current situation where high level monsters hit to seldom against players with very high ac.

Ideas so far:

1) Increase the blanket 5% miss/hit, to 10% miss/hit.
- Very simple to implement, alleviates the problem a bit, without any strange side effects.

2) Recover previous functionality:
What has changed is that player ac has increased over the whole range by a factor of 'f'. To recover the previous functionality we need to increase every monster's ac by 'f', then deflate the importance of ac in test_hit by 'f'.
- Works if the base premise is correct, i.e. player ac has increased by the same factor over the whole range.
- Need to know the factor 'f'.
- Somewhat more work.
- Has the positive side effect that monsters ac will be more in line with players ac, and you could compare your ac with Morgoth to see if you had good ac :-)

3) Make spot changes for problem cases:
The discussion started based on encounters with a few high end monsters. There are simple solutions for specific cases. The first and simplest: increase the power of SHATTER (i.e. monster attacks that have the effect SHATTER will hit the player more often). This change alone would solve most of the reported cases. Further changes in this fashion would solve even more problems. After a quick look other changes could be to give Titans two attacks with the HURT effect, and/or increase the power of CONFUSION.
- Somewhat invloved solution since it requires that each problem case be analyzed case by case, i.e. somewhat heavy workload.
- A generic change is easier to understand.
- Some monsters will get just the right fix, others won't get any fix at all.

4) Find the magic formula that solves all our problems.
I actually have an idea that could work, but it's more of a rewrite, so no go for 3.3. And I am guessing that most formulas in this category are of the same sort, i.e. not in time for 3.3, so I am dropping this option for now.

###

So, why this post? Well, I want your ideas, and I need your information! Specifically:
If 1) seems viable, what would the best % be, and should it be the same for both hit and miss?
If 2) seems viable, what is the factor 'f'?
If 3) seems viable, what are the problem cases?

A combination of some or all of the above is of course also possible.
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Old June 28, 2011, 04:34   #2
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#2. It would be nice if monsters and player used the same stats on the same relative scale, even if all things can't be equal.

Is a monsters general combat ability/to-hit (THAC0) ever expressed anywhere? I know AC and HP's are given, but it seems that the monsters ability to hit you is kinda critical info that I don't recall ever seeing.
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Old June 28, 2011, 06:30   #3
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1) the 5% is a shoutout to D&D (The Hoary Original). I see no reason to adjust this up. (I'd be happy with 0% mininum fail and success for to-hit)

2) Maximum damage reduction from armor was also scaled. 60% DR was changed from 150 AC to 250 AC. So f should be something like 5/3 .
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Old June 28, 2011, 10:08   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzkill View Post
Is a monsters general combat ability/to-hit (THAC0) ever expressed anywhere? I know AC and HP's are given, but it seems that the monsters ability to hit you is kinda critical info that I don't recall ever seeing.
It's 3 times their lvl + a number given by the sort of attack they do (the one given as the effect on monster.txt)

This number is 0-10 for most effects, but for HURT and SHATTER it is 60. HURT is a very common attack form.
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Old June 28, 2011, 10:14   #5
jens
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zaimoni View Post
1) the 5% is a shoutout to D&D (The Hoary Original). I see no reason to adjust this up. (I'd be happy with 0% mininum fail and success for to-hit)
Yes it's a reference to D&D, but that's about the only reason to keep it. Well that, and the reason that D&D has it. The reason D&D has it is because the formulas they use are quite simple, and will break at the ends (break as in being unfun, or unbalanced). And since they used 1d20, the easy solution was 1 and 20, i.e. 5% hit/miss. Those formulas have been copied quite litteraly, then modified somewhat over the ages. So basically we still have a simple formula that breaks at the ends, and it still needs a crutch. Sticking to exactly 5% is not a given though.

I have some ideas for how to change it in the future, and if it works out, then we would not need the crutch.
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