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Old August 13, 2013, 15:28   #11
Psi
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Originally Posted by HugoTheGreat2011 View Post
With have very high Song + very high Will it can freeze most non-Morgothian foes in their tracks, making it very powerful and very fun in the end. I've seen Psi make it work against high-level Raukar, maybe even Balrogs, if I'm not mistaken.
I've frozen Morgoth too. You need song of 40 to guarantee he can't act when adjacent IIRC.
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Old August 13, 2013, 15:50   #12
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Originally Posted by Psi View Post
I've frozen Morgoth too. You need song of 40 to guarantee he can't act when adjacent IIRC.
That's right. Your Will doesn't enter into it. The highest Song I've seen is Psi's 46: http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=13440
(although I could have got to 50 if I'd allocated the experience I had at the end with http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=14647 ).

I don't know if these examples suggest that it's too easy for Mastery to overwhelm everything. We haven't seen a flood of characters using it, so maybe that's just the payoff for the difficulty of getting there.
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Old August 13, 2013, 16:08   #13
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Also, it is probably easier to get Lorien to overwhelm everything, if that is what you're after. Mastery lets you kill them as well, but this doesn't strike me as all that much of an advantage once nothing in the game can hurt you.
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Old August 13, 2013, 16:09   #14
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I've frozen Morgoth too. You need song of 40 to guarantee he can't act when adjacent IIRC.
I never had any skill at 40 in this game.
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Old August 14, 2013, 08:03   #15
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Also, it is probably easier to get Lorien to overwhelm everything, if that is what you're after. Mastery lets you kill them as well, but this doesn't strike me as all that much of an advantage once nothing in the game can hurt you.
Lorien can't overwhelm everything though. I nearly lost my Lorien character to a deathblade...
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Old August 14, 2013, 09:53   #16
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Lorien can't overwhelm everything though. I nearly lost my Lorien character to a deathblade...
So did I.

Twice.
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Old August 17, 2013, 15:10   #17
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Don't forget you can get Mastery via Lorien as well. So you can take Mastery any time you want, both when you started as a pacifist and wreak havoc later or when you want to remain pacifist - you already have high song so mastery will work on most enemies. I tried this with Arand (http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=14790) and it worked out perfectly.

Underwhelming (for my build) midgame finds apart from speed boots (no revelation, no song item, no early stealth finds, only one +2 perception ring) made him too weak to go for Morgoth but for everything else it doesn't matter if you need one or two more arrows when you can hold them in your grip (only avoided Hithraukos and Ds). I got distracted by looting and my obsession to increase song to be able to take on Morgoth (w/ Mastery instead of Lorien) and got detected when greedily trying for a second Sil adjacent to Morgoth without even fully buffing up beforehand.

I wonder whether with a staff of revelations I could have used the xp put into the last three songs abilities to get armoursmith / jeweller / artifice that would have allowed decent singing artifacts (and additionaly get the same song abilities + some crucial song skill points) without much further investment simply due to high grace, high aule bonus and the single smithing item I had at the time (Maeglins armour).

Both Lorien and Mastery are really intoxicating.
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