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Old August 5, 2009, 22:23   #1
will_asher
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My observations on vanilla 3.1.1

(Keep in mind that I haven't played vanilla in awhile.)

- I like the changes to the monster list, but there's something I don't understand about them: It lists monsters I'm aware of but can't see even when I don't have ESP and am not detecting anything. How can I be aware of monsters that I can't see when I don't have ESP?

- Hard to tell for sure, but it seems like there's been some changes to add variety to dungeons generation and I kindof like it.

- I agree with the other people who were saying that the extra question about squelching whenever you try to destroy something is really annoying. A few times I accidently told it to squelch something and had to go to the squelch menu and unsquelch it. Please put the destroy command back to how it used to be.

- (EDIT: added after posting and playing a little more) Has something changed with the wonder effect? My wand of wander just had a *destruction* effect twice in a row. I didn't think wander could have that effect at all.

- a bug: flask of oil description says it brands your melee attacks with flames. (I think someone has already mentioned this).

- I still can't really decide if I like the new identify-by-use stuff or not, but I don't hate it. Is there a plan to add pseudo-ID on jewelry because that's something I know I want. (Or has it already been added and I just haven't spent enough turns with unIDed jewelry in my inventory yet?)

- something that I consider a bug that most people probably wouldn't:
Water hounds are grey! I know it's always been this way, but *every* time I've seen a water hound in vanilla, I look at it and think "Oh there's a dark hound, no problem. It's not as dark as most dark hounds but there's no other hounds at this depth that are grey. Water hounds would be blue of course, so I know it's not a water hound so I don't even have to glance over at my monster list which I have open right next to the main window.." I forget every time because it makes no sense. Why would water hounds be grey?? (sorry 'bout the silly rant. I'll just go into monster.txt and fix it like I have before but forgot to when I downloaded the new version).

- I don't understand why ale, wine & jerky were removed from the general store. The general store wasn't getting too full. So what if no one ever used them? Their purpose was for flavor and it adds flavor just to see them there. The devs of vanilla obviously have completely different priorities than I do.

- Playing vanilla again makes me wonder if I made DaJAngband harder than I meant to because so far this game has seemed pretty boring, ..but I wouldn't have any trouble getting to dl20 with a high elf rogue in DaJAnband either, so maybe it's just the lack of flavor. Icky things, six colors of centipedes and large snakes, and just not that much interesting stuff in the first several levels. I know it's the primary reason I made my own variant, but if I'm going to play vanilla sometimes, I'd really like to see some attempt to improve the flavor. I know the devs are busy improving lots of other stuff these days, so maybe I'll just stick to DaJAngband.
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Last edited by will_asher; August 5, 2009 at 22:52.
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Old August 5, 2009, 23:03   #2
Marble Dice
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Water hounds are grey because they're actually acid hounds, and grey is the acidic color (eg black dragons). These aren't fresh spring water hounds, they're dank, vile, corrosive water hounds. I know you didn't expect people to agree, but there's more reason to it than just "it's always been that way" (which is not a good reason IMO).

For flavor, I don't mind it as long as it doesn't interfere with game play. Broken bones, shards of pottery, etc just exacerbated TMJ.

I'm neutral on food types, except if I recall none of them were worth buying compared to rations and if you didn't know that you might end up taking them down into the dungeon with you even though they don't stack with food you're likely to find and they don't provide adequate sustenance per weight or cost.

I agree with you completely on the series of <color> <critter> enemies (early snakes, centipedes, and to a lesser extent, ickies). They all meld together in my mind because they aren't distinct, their names are not descriptive, and the colors have no thematic or mechanical implications (unlike the dragons and hounds). I'd rather see large garden snake, giant constrictor snake instead of large white snake, large yellow snake, etc.
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Old August 5, 2009, 23:45   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by will_asher View Post
- I still can't really decide if I like the new identify-by-use stuff or not, but I don't hate it. Is there a plan to add pseudo-ID on jewelry because that's something I know I want. (Or has it already been added and I just haven't spent enough turns with unIDed jewelry in my inventory yet?)
Pseudo on jewelry has not been added. Takkaria wasn't interested in anything more complicated than {good} vs {bad}, and I wasn't interested in anything that weak. Perhaps you can convince someone else to implement something Takkaria might accept.
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Old August 5, 2009, 23:55   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerDiver View Post
Pseudo on jewelry has not been added. Takkaria wasn't interested in anything more complicated than {good} vs {bad}, and I wasn't interested in anything that weak. Perhaps you can convince someone else to implement something Takkaria might accept.
Mostly, I think pseudo on jewelry is mostly redundant with learn-by-ID. I haven't missed it. And when we have different curses, there'll be no penalty for just trying out items by wearing them.
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Old August 6, 2009, 01:10   #5
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Originally Posted by takkaria View Post
Mostly, I think pseudo on jewelry is mostly redundant with learn-by-ID. I haven't missed it. And when we have different curses, there'll be no penalty for just trying out items by wearing them.
Recently there has been a big push towards the "learn by using it" approach to items, but where did that come from? Even with the new features, I never put anything on until I ID it, it's just not my play style in this game or any other. I'm sure there are other people out there like me (or so I believe).
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Old August 6, 2009, 01:45   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zikke View Post
Recently there has been a big push towards the "learn by using it" approach to items, but where did that come from? Even with the new features, I never put anything on until I ID it, it's just not my play style in this game or any other. I'm sure there are other people out there like me (or so I believe).
It came from the idea that you should be able to figure out what items do by using them, basically.
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Old August 6, 2009, 03:28   #7
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Originally Posted by Zikke View Post
I'm sure there are other people out there like me (or so I believe).
Count me in on that. I've been playing Moria, Angband, and other variants since I was in college (back in 1986 and later..whenever it showed up on our vaxcluster)..

I don't drink anything, put anything on, etc.. until I've ID'ed it.

It's the equivalent of drinking a bottle with Mr Yuck on it. What does that Mr Yuck mean? Maybe I should just drink it and find out.

No thanks!

This is my first post on the forum, so.. I guess I'll weigh in more now that I've actually registered.

Been lurking a while.

I'm not a diver, I guess I qualify as a scummer. I revisit each level until I've found all the possible unique monsters, unique/ego items, etc.

These I store in my home for display and pleasure if I'm not using them.

Beyond that, I've never killed Morgoth. But that's not my goal in playing the game. My goal is to find as much stuff and kill as many uniques as I can.

I'm an odd one in that the 'endgame' isn't the game for me. I'd kill Morgoth if I ever got far enough down to find him... but somehow, I always get breathed on by an AMHD or some such thing.

Anyway, greets to you all.

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Old August 6, 2009, 03:28   #8
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I'm the same way. I carry stuff until I get a feeling for what it is and then either ID it by scroll or destroy it. Since Moria I have learned never ever wear/wield anything unless I know exactly what it is.

I think the ID-by-use feature is kind of cool, especially for Ironman players, but as a towny I'd be really unhappy if Scrolls of Identity were made more rare or more expensive (so I hope that's not on the horizon).
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Old August 6, 2009, 03:32   #9
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Originally Posted by will_asher View Post
I agree with the other people who were saying that the extra question about squelching whenever you try to destroy something is really annoying. A few times I accidently told it to squelch something and had to go to the squelch menu and unsquelch it. Please put the destroy command back to how it used to be.
Oh, and I second, third, fourth, whatever this request.

I like my destroy. I never use squelch, never need it. I have a specific and enjoyable habit of destroying every little piece of trash I pick up.

Examine, ID, sell or destroy.
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Old August 6, 2009, 04:51   #10
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Originally Posted by Maupin View Post
I'm the same way. I carry stuff until I get a feeling for what it is and then either ID it by scroll or destroy it. Since Moria I have learned never ever wear/wield anything unless I know exactly what it is.

I think the ID-by-use feature is kind of cool, especially for Ironman players, but as a towny I'd be really unhappy if Scrolls of Identity were made more rare or more expensive (so I hope that's not on the horizon).
Try it, you may well like it. I certainly do.
Sticky cursed items are quite uncommon now, and the only really disastrous sticky curse is on bad ego weapons. Rather than 20 ?ID, you can get by with a handful of ?Remove Curse for a whole lot of identification. Further, you get to discover high resists & abilities, so the old problem of scumming for *ID* is gone forever. (And yes, ?ID gives full identify now--that's just another reason to make it less common.)
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