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Old January 25, 2011, 23:43   #11
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Ehh, the Night* undead monsters go from scary-scary to reasonable challenges. They just don't show up that often. I agree that Archliches aren't too bad, so long as you don't let them summon and you have nothing in inventory to drain. There just don't seem to be that many other top-tier undead, though. Discounting uniques, the deepest monsters for each undead letter are:

s: Skull druj, 59
z: Mummified troll, 37
V: Elder Vampire, 54
W: Nightwalker, 73
L: Black Reaver, 74
G: Dreadlord, 62

Most of these guys are pretty rare, too. Outside of graveyards anyway.
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Old January 26, 2011, 04:02   #12
Pete Mack
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If you want to make druj's worse, it makes more sense that a Hand druj is not detectable by ESP rather than a skull druj. But I think it's a bad idea in any case: just one more beat-down on Warriors and their lousy detection.

As for monster genera (aka letters) without tough high-level monsters, how about w, i, and c? Those guys are seriously under-represented after dl 25 or so!
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Old January 26, 2011, 20:21   #13
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There are quite a few letters that are scantly represented in the lower depths. To a large extent, I think this is okay -- it gives the player a sense of accomplishment to move on to fighting dragons and wraiths instead of icky things and centipedes. But I think there is room to expand some of the letters, particularly for monsters that have a fairly unique feel to them.

For example, cats ('f') tend to be fast for their depth, and decently hard-hitting, but fragile. The last non-unique cat is the Displacer Beast at DL26 (and that doesn't really fit this mold anyway). I think we could build some more monsters around this template and still have them be dangerous at their depths.
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Old January 26, 2011, 21:27   #14
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I agree that Archliches aren't too bad, so long as you don't let them summon and you have nothing in inventory to drain.
But doesn't that suggest they're just about spot-on in difficulty? I draw from my tabletop DMing goal with standard encounters is to provide reasonable challenges. Beat up the characters, yes; make them think they earn the victory, yes. But unlikely anyone will get killed. It's the boss monsters, AKA the uniques, whose job is to do that.

I see the point that maybe we could use some more deep-ish non-uniques, but I don't necessarily agree that we need a swath of tough new monsters.
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