Angband.oook.cz
Angband.oook.cz
AboutVariantsLadderForumCompetitionComicScreenshotsFunniesLinks

Go Back   Angband Forums > Angband > Vanilla

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old February 2, 2011, 18:44   #21
d_m
Angband Devteam member
 
d_m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Philadelphia, PA, USA
Age: 39
Posts: 1,516
d_m is on a distinguished road
The one thing to say is that rDark becomes relevant at the very end (I think) due to some huge darkness breathers, e.g. Shelob, Ungoliant, Carcharoth.

I guess you could say that about most of the resists but for whatever reason I end up trying to cover rLight and rDark at the very end while not worrying as much about e.g. rNether or rChaos.
__________________
linux->xterm->screen->pmacs
d_m is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 2, 2011, 18:52   #22
Derakon
Prophet
 
Derakon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 8,916
Derakon is on a distinguished road
It occurred to me that it might be interesting to set up a webapp that asks players if they'd make various trades. E.g. "would you give up blindness resistance for telepathy?" "Would you give up slow digestion for see invisible?" You could use the results to tune the relative strength of various abilities. Obviously decisions can't be made in a void; resistance to light and darkness are more useful if you lack blindness resistance, for example. But I bet the data would still be useful.

d_m: resist dark can be useful at that point, sure, but the only big light breather I'm aware of is the Phoenix.

EDIT: okay, Huan also breathes light. Good to know, I guess.
Derakon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 2, 2011, 20:22   #23
pampl
RePosBand maintainer
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
Posts: 225
pampl is on a distinguished road
I thought there was a deep light breather that wasn't unique but looking through monsters.txt the Ethereal Dragon (level 45) is as deep as it gets. Maybe there should be a Great Wyrm of Shadows or GWoL could breath light or something. Making every resist useful would be a good way to make the game more challenging IMO.
pampl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 3, 2011, 01:55   #24
Nomad
Knight
 
Nomad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: England
Posts: 958
Nomad is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
It occurred to me that it might be interesting to set up a webapp that asks players if they'd make various trades. E.g. "would you give up blindness resistance for telepathy?" "Would you give up slow digestion for see invisible?" You could use the results to tune the relative strength of various abilities.
Maybe you could somehow harvest info from the character dumps? Compare the attributes of wielded items to ones stored in the home to see what abilities/resistances are consistently chosen above others. If somebody's wearing a nexus resist Elvenkind when they've got a disenchantment resist one at home, that's a useful datapoint...

Quote:
Originally Posted by pampl View Post
I thought there was a deep light breather that wasn't unique but looking through monsters.txt the Ethereal Dragon (level 45) is as deep as it gets. Maybe there should be a Great Wyrm of Shadows or GWoL could breath light or something. Making every resist useful would be a good way to make the game more challenging IMO.
Great Wyrm of Brilliance?
Nomad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 3, 2011, 02:29   #25
Derakon
Prophet
 
Derakon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 8,916
Derakon is on a distinguished road
Celestial Wyrm, I'd say. Breathes light, darkness, and gravity.

As for datamining the ladder, that's trickier mostly because it's hard to isolate factors. You'd need something like two armors that are identical except for one resistance, with the player currently wielding one. I'm sure there's lots of useful data in the ladder, but you'd need to be a statistician to usefully mine it for this particular question.
Derakon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 3, 2011, 06:10   #26
Timo Pietilä
Prophet
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Climbing up from hole I just dug.
Posts: 4,096
Timo Pietilä is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
Here's my semi-rough ranking of resists/abilities from most worthless to least worthless:
Good list, however few notes:

There are few deep monsters with big damage darkness storms, and darkness resist IIRC cuts damage more than for example nether resist. It also allows with combination of light resist "poor mans blindness resist". If you don't have blindness resist it becomes a lot more important.

100% saving throw prevents you from being paralyzed, so with that FA goes to top of the list (least important). However by the time you get 100% saving throw you usually have multiple sources for FA which you just can't remove without making combination weaker.

100% saving throw also prevents fear, brain smash, non-melee blindness, slow etc attacks.

Nexus resist is also one of the things that move up and down on the list. 100% saving prevents level-teleports, and all stats maxed you are safe from stat-scrambling, but before that happens it is important.

I'd put acid lower in priority than poison. It has effective max damage of 800 because gear hit reduces damage to half, same with poison, and high-damage poison attacks are actually more common and more annoying. I think Great Wyrm of Many Colors get close to 800 point damage, Ancient MH does only around 350 points of unresisted acid damage (as long as you have all equipment slots covered, and they are not reduced to zero AC by acid already). However acid resistance is probably the easiest to get so it doesn't matter much.

Disenchantment is very annoying. Not dangerous, but it is extremely annoying to get your überweapon reduced to sharp stick with some bonuses. It is very high in my priorities too, but you can survive without it indefinitely if you don't care about losing few points from disenchantment breaths that you will suffer sooner or later (storms of unmagic are really hard to avoid). For that reason I usually prefer swaps unless I have disenchantment in my best gear. It is important to have, but not important to wear all times.

[EDIT] typo corrected

Last edited by Timo Pietilä; February 3, 2011 at 06:18.
Timo Pietilä is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 3, 2011, 06:12   #27
Timo Pietilä
Prophet
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Climbing up from hole I just dug.
Posts: 4,096
Timo Pietilä is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by scud View Post
Bloody hell, I'm going down to 5000' to kick the big fella in the nuts right now.
If you have the methods of healing and getting rid of too difficult summons, you definitely have gear to do that. Good luck.
Timo Pietilä is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 3, 2011, 06:15   #28
Timo Pietilä
Prophet
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Climbing up from hole I just dug.
Posts: 4,096
Timo Pietilä is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
Celestial Wyrm, I'd say. Breathes light, darkness, and gravity.
I hope that would then be about same as Kavlax at most, otherwise that gravity breath is a killer to everybody.
Timo Pietilä is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 3, 2011, 07:17   #29
Pete Mack
Prophet
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 5,378
Donated: $40
Pete Mack is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
Celestial Wyrm, I'd say. Breathes light, darkness, and gravity.
To fill out the cosmic features, he should breathe Time and possibly Inertia too...
Pete Mack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 3, 2011, 07:38   #30
Antoine
Ironband/Quickband Maintainer
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,008
Antoine is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timo Pietilä View Post
Disenchantment is very annoying. Not dangerous, but it is extremely annoying to get your überweapon reduced to sharp stick with some bonuses.
Not anymore

A.
__________________
Ironband - http://angband.oook.cz/ironband/
Antoine is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Returning to normal form in Oangband jbissell Variants 1 January 8, 2011 04:46
My thoughts upon returning topazg Vanilla 12 December 6, 2010 12:06
RNG giveth and RNG taketh away Jungle_Boy AAR 0 June 14, 2010 18:59
Playing without returning to town TJS Vanilla 14 April 7, 2009 22:37
The RNG Hates me Faust AAR 2 May 25, 2007 00:39


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:53.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.