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Old February 7, 2019, 16:05   #21
wobbly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grotug View Post
Shoot me now or forever hold your piece. sigh

Where/how do I find "player-calcs.c"? (on a lark, I downloaded MinGW in the hopes that this might be how I find "player-calcs.c", but I'm pretty mystified on how/what I'm supposed to do after running setup, I tried to follow the directions as best I could:
You need the source code rather then a pre-compiled version. Alternatively it's here:

https://github.com/angband/angband/b...player-calcs.c

Edit: Interesting, it's slightly different in my copy (feature/monster branch). I didn't realise that had been changed?
Edit 2: No just a reading comprehension error on my part, the columns aren't lined up properly in wordpad without changing the settings.

Last edited by wobbly; February 7, 2019 at 16:17.
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Old February 7, 2019, 16:29   #22
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Thanks wobbly! I'll study this over the next few days.
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Detailed account of my Ironman win here.
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Old February 14, 2019, 03:43   #23
Pete Mack
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There is a sticky thread in the Development forum that describes this process
http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=4302
For MINGW build, see here:
http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthr...ht=Build+MINGW

Note: you must cd to .../angband/src directory for this to work, and run the executable from the parent dir.

Magnate: can you update the sticky thread so the first post shows how to build on windows? Or could someone else make a new sticky thread that shows current practice (including SDL2.)
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Old February 14, 2019, 22:01   #24
RogerN
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I would hazard a guess that the weapon weights (inherited from Moria?) were originally based on Weight + Speed Factor from weapons found in the first edition of AD&D. The numbers match up very closely. Small tweaks here and there for balance reasons can explain minor differences.
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Old February 19, 2019, 01:33   #25
Geordieboy84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wobbly View Post
Cross-posting from another thread:



I'm going to suggest a halving of weapon weights which I think are too heavy to start with. This only solves part of Bandobras issue but I'm pretty sure the id mini game is less painful when you're not at -spd. Currently I recall more then I'd like to, just to dump a bunch of junk weapons at shop 3.

As long as the ratios between weapon weights stay identical you can change their weights & maintain the same balance by making the same adjustment in tunnelling, criticals & blows. So this would be a change to encumbrance + cosmetics.

Unless people like the current balance between weapon weight & encumbrance? I don't.
If you roll a character with low strength then you have low strength. That is your character. You will have other bonuses which help you in the game,e.g. intelligence. It's a trade off. If you can't carry it then drop it. It you want more strength mage then get rid of your intelligence at birth! :-)

Personally I think the weights are fine but enchantment should be size dependent. e.g. A 2 lb weapon should have +2 hit/ damage max. A 30 lb weapon should have +30 hit/damage max. You may get more hits per turn with a low level weapon but each hit shouldn't be similar to a weapon several times the weight. e.g. dagger = tap * 5 + 5 * little bonus while a great hammer = massive crush * 2 + 2 * larger bonus. With increased strength the great hammer will get more blows per turn and be better than any dagger. Who wants to hit Morgoth with a dagger!?!?! I want to feel earthquakes when hitting Morgoth at the end game. You hit Morgoth with a ***BONECRUSHING*** crush.

Last edited by Geordieboy84; February 19, 2019 at 01:40.
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Old April 7, 2019, 07:00   #26
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So I've got a solution I like enough to try:
  • Halve the weapon weights
  • Blows calculated with effective weight = weapon weight + 5
What this does is pushes all the weights closer together so instead of a longsword being 11 dagger weights it is now 2. You can get a rough idea of how this works out by comparing to the old weapon blows.
  • New dagger: blows of old spear
  • New rapier: blows of old trident
  • New tulwar: Old tulwar
  • New longsword: Old cutlass
  • New Zweihander: Old broadsword
  • New MoD: Old Lochaber Axe
I'm thinking I'll also make whips 1d4 & daggers 1d5 then adjust the bottom of the str range (via the adj_str table) to put half troll warriors damage with a +0,+0 dagger to it's old position & adjust the end of the str range so that Maces of Disruption max. out at the same pt. Just need to look a little closer at the numbers 1st

Anyway I'll be putting this into coffeeband which I've restarted (in a more organized way). For the 1st version I'll put up a copy that is just angband-master with the new blow system for anyone who wants to see how this would play out in V.
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Old April 7, 2019, 09:02   #27
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Ok this is what it would look like for a level 1 human warrior if I don't adjust the str table & just run with half-weight weapons, blows based on weight + 5 lb & every 1 dice weapon gaining a damage side.

Code:
 [Angband 4.1.3 Character Dump]

 Name   Test         Age             20          Self  RB  CB  EB   Best
 Race   Human        Height        6'4"   STR:     17  +0  +3  +0  18/20
 Class  Warrior      Weight    13st 2lb   INT:     10  +0  -2  +0      8
 Title  Rookie       Turns used:          WIS:     10  +0  -2  +0      8
 HP     18/19        Game           181   DEX:     18  +0  +2  +0  18/20
 SP     0/0          Standard        18   CON:     10  +0  +2  +0     12
                     Resting          0

 Level                  1    Armor        [8,+2]    Saving Throw     20%
 Cur Exp                0                           Stealth          Bad
 Max Exp                0    Melee        1d5,+3    Disarm - phys.   29%
 Adv Exp               10    To-hit        24,+4    Disarm - magic   22%
                             Blows      2.0/turn    Magic Devices     19
 Gold               48726                           Searching        11%
 Burden           80.0 lb    Shoot to-dam     +0    Infravision     0 ft
 Overweight      -63.9 lb    To-hit        19,+4    Speed         Normal
 Max Depth           Town    Shots      0.0/turn

 You are one of several children of a Landed Knight.  You are a well
 liked child.  You have blue-gray eyes, curly blond hair, and an
 average complexion.


rAcid:............. Nexus:.............
rElec:............. Nethr:.............
rFire:............. Chaos:.............
rCold:............. Disen:.............
rPois:............. pFear:.............
rLite:............. pBlnd:.............
rDark:............. pConf:.............
Sound:............. pStun:.............
Shard:............. HLife:.............

Regen:............. Stea.:.............
  ESP:............. Sear.:.............
Invis:............. Infra:.............
FrAct:............. Tunn.:.............
Feath:............. Speed:.............
S.Dig:............. Blows:.............
ImpHP:............. Shots:.............
 Fear:............. Might:.............
Aggrv:............. Light:.............


  [Character Equipment]

a) a Dagger (1d5) (+0,+0)
     An inheritance from your family
     
     Combat info:
     2.0 blows/round.
     With +1 STR and +0 DEX you would get 2.3 blows
     With +0 STR and +2 DEX you would get 2.3 blows
     Average damage/round: 12.
     
f) a Wooden Torch (5000 turns)
     An inheritance from your family
     
     Intensity 2 light.
     
g) Soft Leather Armour [8,+0]
     An inheritance from your family
     




  [Character Inventory]

a) a Ration of Food
b) a Potion of Berserk Strength
c) a Scroll of Word of Recall
d) a Rapier (1d7) (+3,+5)
     Bought from a store
     
     Combat info:
     1.6 blows/round.
     With +1 STR and +0 DEX you would get 2.0 blows
     With +0 STR and +2 DEX you would get 2.0 blows
     Average damage/round: 20.
     
e) a Tulwar (2d4) (+6,+3)
     Bought from a store
     
     Combat info:
     1.6 blows/round.
     With +2 STR and +0 DEX you would get 2.0 blows
     With +0 STR and +2 DEX you would get 2.0 blows
     Average damage/round: 18.4.
     
f) a Scimitar (4d2) (+0,+0)
     Bought from a store
     
     Combat info:
     1.3 blows/round.
     With +1 STR and +0 DEX you would get 1.6 blows
     With +0 STR and +2 DEX you would get 1.6 blows
     Average damage/round: 12.1.
     
g) an Executioner's Sword (4d5) (+3,+1)
     Bought from a store
     
     Combat info:
     1.3 blows/round.
     With +4 STR and +0 DEX you would get 1.6 blows
     With +0 STR and +2 DEX you would get 1.6 blows
     Average damage/round: 21.8.
     
h) an Awl-Pike (1d9) (+2,+1)
     Bought from a store
     
     Combat info:
     1.3 blows/round.
     With +2 STR and +0 DEX you would get 1.6 blows
     With +0 STR and +2 DEX you would get 1.6 blows
     Average damage/round: 12.1.
     
i) an Awl-Pike (1d9) (+0,+0)
     Bought from a store
     
     Combat info:
     1.3 blows/round.
     With +2 STR and +0 DEX you would get 1.6 blows
     With +0 STR and +2 DEX you would get 1.6 blows
     Average damage/round: 10.7.
     
j) a Trident (1d11) (+0,+0)
     Combat info:
     1.6 blows/round.
     With +2 STR and +0 DEX you would get 2.0 blows
     With +0 STR and +2 DEX you would get 2.0 blows
     Average damage/round: 14.9.
     
k) a Beaked Axe of Venom (2d6) (+2,+4)
     Bought from a store
     
     Branded with poison.
     
     Combat info:
     1.3 blows/round.
     With +2 STR and +0 DEX you would get 1.6 blows
     With +0 STR and +2 DEX you would get 1.6 blows
     Average damage/round: 37.9 vs. creatures not resistant to poison,
     and 18.8 vs. others.
     
l) a Whip (1d4) (+0,+0)
     Bought from a store
     
     Combat info:
     2.0 blows/round.
     With +2 STR and +0 DEX you would get 2.3 blows
     With +0 STR and +2 DEX you would get 2.3 blows
     Average damage/round: 11.
     
m) a Maul (4d4) (+0,+0)
     Bought from a store
     
     Combat info:
     1.3 blows/round.
     With +2 STR and +0 DEX you would get 1.6 blows
     With +0 STR and +2 DEX you would get 1.6 blows
     Average damage/round: 17.5.
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Old April 7, 2019, 10:43   #28
wobbly
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Did a bunch of tweaking pushing it back towards the original balance. This will be ready for testing in about as long as it takes for me to work a shift and refresh myself on to use git.
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Old April 7, 2019, 23:55   #29
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Ok source is here:

https://github.com/MichaelCourtney/a...ree/coffeeband

More from patient instructions from Quirk, then my own skill I'm afraid. Thanks again Quirk. Downloaded & it compiles on mine. I'll put up a compiled version for windows & start a proper thread for this in variants in the coming days. I've had enough of trying to wrestle with Git for one day.
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Old May 5, 2019, 11:33   #30
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From the changelog of Angband v2.5.0-beta
  • Minimum weight for multiple attack calc reduced from 5 to 3
So no weapon was faster then the spear in the original.
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