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Old August 15, 2014, 05:07   #1
Ehrblast
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Kinda new to Angband...what do you think of this approach?

Ive quickly become engrossed in Angband. I'm amazed this game can be beaten; I kick and scream when I die at cl10. That's the highest ive gotten.
Basically, Ive been hovering just below town, occasionally going as deep as dl5, though once a scroll of deep descent brought me down to dl11 [scary]. The guides speak lot of the benefits of diving deep and being deliberate in that action. I find that when ive done that, I get overpowered before I can find the upstairs.
Tactically, does anyone see issue with hanging around the very upper levels of the dungeon to "grind" so to speak: getting gold, scrolls, experience? Do any of you do that? Can you share your technique for newly created characters? The guide had mentioned being able to go down to dl10 in the first go; My play style isnt that aggressive, and I haven't been able to do that successfully.
I find myself doing this specifically to get gold, as there is no selling. By cl10, Ive got the chain or scale mail, and a 1d10 trident or 2d5 pike, and a good hoard of scrolls, potions, torches, projectiles, etc.
I'm restarting my character atm, so how long should i stay with this technique? Stay shallow for a while, occasionally going deep? If Im going to beat this game, i gotta go deep so, should I just push it? Lot of though needed for this game.
My character is a ranger, and I typically play rangers.
Just looking for advice and conversation about this freekin great game. Been a long time since Ive played Moria and the like back in the day.
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Old August 15, 2014, 05:43   #2
sam_snowy
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As someone who still not have a winner, I can only say a few experience I had when I started playing angband. As a newbie, i'll say you're going to die quite a few times but you'll learn something every time so don't feel "too" conservative. Just play safe and cast detection spells.

It's been a while since I played rangers, but I believe you get extra shots with arrow at clvl 20 and clvl 40. I'll suggest to slow down from diving too much until you hit those points (as your dps increases dramatically from that point).

As always, try to get the base four resistence, free action(very important) and seeInvis before you go past the 2000 mark (or is it 1000/1500). There are quite a few monsters that would be either invis and hit to reduce stat so it's extremely annoying to play without it. There was a guide about it and I basically always follow the start of it. later on you would need to have resist poison but that's in the mid game so it's not that important for now.

Telepathy is kinda rare, but I definitely recommend it because it reveals most monsters around you even when you dont have line of sight. Try to get one as soon as possible.

But generally speaking starting as a ranger, just buy scrolls to enhance your bow and you'll be doing some decent dps. The lack of ID until much later would be annoying but I guess psuedoID would do for a while until you get the spell.

BTW is no_selling option on by default? Turning it off would ease the start of the game as you'll have a more steady income for potions/scrolls and the occasional rare stuff in the black market. It'll also make you focus more on gameplay as later in the game gold become basically just a number.

Last edited by sam_snowy; August 15, 2014 at 06:00.
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Old August 15, 2014, 06:01   #3
AnonymousHero
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ehrblast View Post
Ive quickly become engrossed in Angband. I'm amazed this game can be beaten; I kick and scream when I die at cl10. That's the highest ive gotten.
Basically, Ive been hovering just below town, occasionally going as deep as dl5, though once a scroll of deep descent brought me down to dl11 [scary]. The guides speak lot of the benefits of diving deep and being deliberate in that action. I find that when ive done that, I get overpowered before I can find the upstairs.
Tactically, does anyone see issue with hanging around the very upper levels of the dungeon to "grind" so to speak: getting gold, scrolls, experience? Do any of you do that? Can you share your technique for newly created characters? The guide had mentioned being able to go down to dl10 in the first go; My play style isnt that aggressive, and I haven't been able to do that successfully.
It sounds like you are playing with disconnected stairs. Is that right?

Re: Getting overrun: As a relatively squishy character you need to be very picky about when you engage in combat. You may simply be playing too aggressively combat-wise, but not aggressively enough diving-wise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ehrblast View Post
I find myself doing this specifically to get gold, as there is no selling. By cl10, Ive got the chain or scale mail, and a 1d10 trident or 2d5 pike, and a good hoard of scrolls, potions, torches, projectiles, etc.
This may be a case of not buying the right items. At early levels all non-Warrioresque classes can be a big fragile, so you need to invest in escapes: Prioritize buying ?PhaseDoor, ?WoR (just need a few to avoid having the last one burned), _Teleportation (for escaping when Confused/Blinded) and !CCW. These are by far the most important thing and should be prioritized over armor, weapons, etc. Unless I've forgotten something, you don't really need any other scrolls/potions.

However, for a ranger you probably want a Long Bow which you can enchant up as you go (with any ?EnchantWeapon you find/buy). I wouldn't bother buying any armor, boots, etc. unless a particularly useful one pops in the BM or shop. Boots of Stability or some armor of Elvenkind, though you probably won't be able to afford the latter anyway during the early game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ehrblast View Post
I'm restarting my character atm, so how long should i stay with this technique? Stay shallow for a while, occasionally going deep? If Im going to beat this game, i gotta go deep so, should I just push it? Lot of though needed for this game.
My character is a ranger, and I typically play rangers.
Just looking for advice and conversation about this freekin great game. Been a long time since Ive played Moria and the like back in the day.
I would give diving a go -- basically you should always be at a dungeon level where you're slightly out of your depth, i.e. always in moderate danger. This will (by necessity and with a bit of practice) make you a lot more careful and pay a lot more attention to what you're doing. Try to avoid the urge to go up to shallower levels. You just need to a) accept that you'll die a lot during the early game until you get a hang of the diving play-style, and b) be a lot more selective about when you engage monsters.
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Old August 15, 2014, 06:19   #4
AnonymousHero
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_snowy View Post
As always, try to get the base four resistence, free action(very important) and seeInvis before you go past the 2000 mark (or is it 1000/1500). There are quite a few monsters that would be either invis and hit to reduce stat so it's extremely annoying to play without it. There was a guide about it and I basically always follow the start of it. later on you would need to have resist poison but that's in the mid game so it's not that important for now.
This advice is (IMO) overly conservative.

If you're playing the diving style then you really don't want to come to a complete stop at these levels. Instead you'll want to be more careful about engaging monsters and detecting them before they detect you. Luckily Rangers get detection quite early even though it's a bit expensive SP-wise.

(This doesn't change the fact that rBase and rPois are critical to have at certain depths, but you definitely don't want to come to a complete stop until you have them. Just avoid heavy breathers via detection and simply avoid their section of the level.)

Typically the gear you need is native to a depth slightly deeper than the level you need it at, so you'll need less luck to find such gear on e.g. the floor of the dungeon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_snowy View Post
BTW is no_selling option on by default? Turning it off would ease the start of the game as you'll have a more steady income for potions/scrolls and the occasional rare stuff in the black market. It'll also make you focus more on gameplay as later in the game gold become basically just a number.
To OP: Please don't do turn no_selling off until you've at least played for a good while! It reduces grindiness hugely. I was actually opposed to this change initially, but after playing it, I'm a huge proponent and I think that selling (for other than ID purposes) should in fact be removed completely.
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Old August 15, 2014, 06:29   #5
Djabanete
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This is the distillation of my Angband knowledge:
(i) Forget about killing everything. Death is waiting around the corner. Avoid it.
(ii) Learn to tell when the fight is going badly.
(iii) Run away.

Your character needs the following utilities, from inventory or spells:
(a) detection (of monsters if possible; hard for warriors to find)
(b) healing;
(c) escapes.

My only problem with grinding is that item (i) goes out the window. While grinding at shallow levels and killing jackals, you forget that something worse could be lying in wait. Item (ii) means you should fight sowly and deliberately, again remembering that you're not immortal. Item (iii) is obvious --- run the heck away. There are thousands of monsters but @ has just one life.

Detection, healing, and escaping are the survival trifecta. If you ever gain the capacity to detect items, monsters, dungeon layout, or traps --- whether this capacity comes from a spell or an item --- do not sacrifice this capacity ever (unless it's scrolls/staves and you have run out, which is unavoidable). Detection is less important while grinding shallow levels, but ultra important later in the dungeon. Healing and escaping are always crucial. Without ensuring that your character can do these things as soon as money and/or spells allow, the guidelines I mentioned first are nothing. (You can't do (i) without detection, and you can't do (iii) without escape capabilities.)

I have not played Vanilla Angband recently, so I don't know what items and spells are available early in the game anymore. Last I checked, in addition to spells, you could buy Potions of Cure [___] Wounds, Potions of Heroism and Scrolls of Phase Door at the shop. That covers healing and escaping. In the dungeon you might find Wands of Slow/Sleep Monster, which can also count as escapes. Detection in the form of items tends to come last, so Warriors get the short end of the stick there, but at least they're resilient.

Hope that helps a bit!
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Old August 15, 2014, 06:37   #6
Carnivean
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ehrblast View Post
I find myself doing this specifically to get gold, as there is no selling. By cl10, Ive got the chain or scale mail, and a 1d10 trident or 2d5 pike, and a good hoard of scrolls, potions, torches, projectiles, etc.
The point of diving is that the dungeon will provide good equipment well before you will be able to buy it. Gold is for consumables (potions, scrolls) so you really don't need that much of it.

Also don't turn off "no-selling". If anything you get more gold with it on, as the game adjusts the drop values.
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Old August 15, 2014, 07:02   #7
Mondkalb
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Besides the long bow, don't forget to buy lots of arrows. When I started the game playing rangers many years ago, I carried far too few arrows with me. Nowadays I usually start with ~100 arrows.

To hang around on shallow levels for a while can be useful to find out about unidentified scrolls and potions.

Avoid monster groups in the early game, unless you can pick them up one by one in a small corridor (that might still be dangerous if you encounter spellcasters).

A ranger can safely kill all non-moving monsters like mushrooms and jellies from afar with arrows. Early on the give good experience points.
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Old August 15, 2014, 07:07   #8
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Diving is something that the long-time experienced players here think that everybody should do, based on [insert theorycraft here]. I've never agreed with making this tactic the "norm" or recommended, but rather as something that people naturally do after they're familiar with the game.

Play conservative. It's turn-based, so be analytical with each turn if you're in trouble. Always keep escapes available (scrolls, staves, etc.).

Don't feel obligated to dive.
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Old August 15, 2014, 07:09   #9
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And don't stay too long on one level. Monsters wake up after a while and after a very long time even new monsters are created.
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Old August 15, 2014, 08:34   #10
Ingwe Ingweron
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I found that watching "Let's Play Angband" videos posted by Fizzix on YouTube made a quantum leap in my playing ability. Give them a try and I'm sure you will soon be diving successfully.
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