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Old October 23, 2011, 17:50   #11
Bandobras
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Sounds like a good idea, especially after so long a period of hectic changes (to which I offer a blanket approval, BTW, I believe they let players discover and enjoy the very heart of the Angbandness of Angband, which would otherwise be obscured by various superficial flaws). However, starting a game in one version and ending in a totally different version, for which some of the early game choices are no longer optimal, feels queer. Good luck!
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Old October 23, 2011, 18:20   #12
Timo Pietilš
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Originally Posted by GeoffHill View Post
The trick is working out when you are no longer developing Vanilla. When it's a variant. Maybe you need a list of features that make the original game, the original game. For me that's the base artifact list and mechanism for finding them, and the core "spells" and combat mechanics.

Just promise me you won't respell Qllqllzuup. It will be forever a memorial to my drunken days as a student.
Welcome back! I haven't seen you around for a long time.

I have been playing frog-knows (1.31 PC version actually) lately, and I find it just as entertaining as modern vanilla. I only miss few UI improvements like disarm on movement, macros and better targeting. With those in frog-knows it could well be better game than modern vanilla is, which tells me that at some point development has taken a very bad turn. Game should improve over time. It has not done that enough.

Now I'm too sick to play anything requiring concentration (have a flu. A bad one).
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Old October 23, 2011, 18:39   #13
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Originally Posted by Timo Pietilš View Post
Welcome back! I haven't seen you around for a long time.

I have been playing frog-knows (1.31 PC version actually) lately, and I find it just as entertaining as modern vanilla. I only miss few UI improvements like disarm on movement, macros and better targeting. With those in frog-knows it could well be better game than modern vanilla is, which tells me that at some point development has taken a very bad turn. Game should improve over time. It has not done that enough.

Now I'm too sick to play anything requiring concentration (have a flu. A bad one).
Really? Hmm. Frog knows wasn't exactly stable! Things like impact hounds and time hounds would kill your character because of a crash, for example.

Perhaps it's sensible to try and work out where and why the path has gone wrong then, if there are things that made modern vanilla worse.

I do see some of the proposed changes are re-inserting some of the original characteristics (like race balancing).
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Old October 23, 2011, 19:36   #14
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Really? Hmm. Frog knows wasn't exactly stable! Things like impact hounds and time hounds would kill your character because of a crash, for example.
Well, the crash part has been fixed maybe, but I can confirm that Time Hounds continue to kill my character also in the current version...
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Old October 23, 2011, 19:38   #15
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However, starting a game in one version and ending in a totally different version, for which some of the early game choices are no longer optimal, feels queer.
I may have misunderstood you, but it would not be advisable for anyone to move savefiles between V and v4. Keep them completely separate.

Ah, no, perhaps you mean that v4 will develop so fast that by the time you finish a game it will be totally different. Much as I like the sound of that, I doubt we'll progress *that* quickly. Besides, v4 comes with a significant health warning in the top-level readme to finish your current character before upgrading to any new version.
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Old October 23, 2011, 21:50   #16
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I'm just glad the gameplay weenies have a nice shiny object to distract them while the serious people can actually get some of the coding issues straightened out.
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Old October 23, 2011, 23:54   #17
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I'm just glad the gameplay weenies have a nice shiny object to distract them while the serious people can actually get some of the coding issues straightened out.
I predict that v4 will be perfectly balanced with every conceivable feature fully tested and refined before that happens. There's a shortage of serious people around here.
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Old October 24, 2011, 21:52   #18
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I predict that v4 will be perfectly balanced with every conceivable feature fully tested and refined before that happens. There's a shortage of serious people around here.
I disagree - takkaria's looking pretty serious at the moment.
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Old October 25, 2011, 00:31   #19
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Really? Hmm. Frog knows wasn't exactly stable! Things like impact hounds and time hounds would kill your character because of a crash, for example.
Was the "Manticore Fires Missiles" bug yours? I still Ctl+S compulsively from that one ...
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Old October 25, 2011, 01:12   #20
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Was the "Manticore Fires Missiles" bug yours? I still Ctl+S compulsively from that one ...
Haha, sorry... don't think so in that instance.

The bugs made it an odd game to play, back in the pre-release frog knows. One would do EVERYTHING to get away from Impact hounds because they often terminated the save file.

Even now they make me very nervous.
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