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Old September 8, 2020, 23:46   #11
DavidMedley
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It's also useful vs invisible enemies. I have an inkling, but haven't really developed it or gotten feedback, of making some BG spells work even when blind or confused, and Whirl would be candidate #1.
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Old September 9, 2020, 04:46   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidMedley View Post
It's also useful vs invisible enemies. I have an inkling, but haven't really developed it or gotten feedback, of making some BG spells work even when blind or confused, and Whirl would be candidate #1.
Yes... get away from considering them all as "spells" and make them acually "skills". Increased fail rate when blind/confused bit still usable.
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Old September 9, 2020, 07:18   #13
wobbly
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Making them castable blind is probably reasonable, though the next question will be "why do I need to carry the book".
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Old September 9, 2020, 16:14   #14
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Making them castable blind is probably reasonable, though the next question will be "why do I need to carry the book".
Call it an equipment set instead of a book. Concept comes easier in considering rogues ("thieves kit" or "illusionists box" as opposed to "book") but all it would require is finding the right terminology to de-bookify the BG.
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Old September 9, 2020, 17:34   #15
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Making them castable blind is probably reasonable, though the next question will be "why do I need to carry the book".
Well, it is a MAGIC book
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Old September 9, 2020, 17:44   #16
DavidMedley
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But, seriously, maybe you don't need the book for spells marked this way. We're already talking about bypassing the blindness check, we could bypass the inventory check, too. Retain the "have I ever learned this spell" check.

I wouldn't want this to be for all BG spells, or even for a book that's just full of physical techniques (though that's reasonable). Just the spells that seem most obviously physical. Could be used for some other classes, too.
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Old September 9, 2020, 18:06   #17
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For all I know, Whirlwind could be on all the time as an ability, and I still wouldn't fight REALLY big guys two or more at once. But that way, the class would feel a little more berserk-y.

The way it is now, it's just not worth casting, especially later in the game.
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Old September 9, 2020, 19:27   #18
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It could be a side-effect of bloodlust too.
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Old September 9, 2020, 20:26   #19
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For all I know, Whirlwind could be on all the time as an ability, and I still wouldn't fight REALLY big guys two or more at once. But that way, the class would feel a little more berserk-y.

The way it is now, it's just not worth casting, especially later in the game.
While I disagree that it's never worth casting, I mostly agree. The overall mechanics of the game dictate that surviving is more important than dealing damage and escaping is cheap, easy and plentiful. Whirlwind Attack will not change those core facts. As Sphara correctly points out: it's not worth taking on more than one really big enemy at once.

We'd have to do something really crazy to make you want to stay in a situation where you're surrounded by formidable enemies, when dying is permanent and escaping is so easy. I've given this a lot of thought, believe me. Even if Whirl stunned or confused all adjacent enemies, reducing their damage output significantly, you still wouldn't stand in the middle of dangerous foes very often.

Whirl would have to do lethal damage in one turn to monsters that are a challenge for you, or it would have to paralyze (hold) those monsters. Either of those are going too far. So I think it'll have to remain a fairly niche spell that a lot of people will (wrongly) claim should never be cast.

But I'm open to suggestions.
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Old September 9, 2020, 21:18   #20
Adam
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First of all I didn't even try BG yet, I don't know the exact mechanics of Whirlwind. Maybe you could make its effect scaling with the number of enemies in LoS (or adjacent to @). 1 enemy - nothing. 2 enemies - minor buff (to hit/damage maybe). 3 enemies - some low chance of stun etc... you can add more effects and increase chance of already added ones as the number goes up.
I don't know how easy it is to code this but it would open a whole lot of possibilities for fine tuning the balance.
This still would not solve the problem of standing in LoS of 2 big breathers, but maybe it gives some better ideas
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