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Old September 28, 2020, 18:11   #11
whartung
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wobbly View Post
Maybe you could fix it by making blackguards just randomly attack inanimate objects.
There's a compelling idea.

The Blackguard gets so enraged he starts screaming at the lantern on the floor or the pile of gold. "WHO'S NEXT! IS IT YOU? YOU WANT SOME OF THIS!?"
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Old September 28, 2020, 22:04   #12
DavidMedley
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Maybe he gets so enraged he starts yelling at the computer screen
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Old September 29, 2020, 18:43   #13
archolewa
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I mean, thats basically how I play Angband. And write code. And brush my teeth.

Blackguards and I are soul mates is what Im saying.

Im personally not in favor of casting spells in wolf form. I already spend lots of time in wolf form when I get it. Allowing me to cast spells while in it would remove any incentives I might have for staying in humanoid form in battle.
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Old September 29, 2020, 20:45   #14
DavidMedley
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The shape doesn't really need to be werewolf, either. Could be anything. Open to suggestions there.

One odd thing: the BG is the only shapechanger with shield bash. Should eliminate those shield attacks when changed, to go along with all the other restrictions.

I think being in were form is probably enough, without letting you mess with spells and items, too. Thematically, it seems a bit goofy to be doing Whirlwind attacks and zapping rods and whatever when in were form.

I was seriously considering burning SP faster for healing in were form, tho. I think that could be cool. And you can keep Bloodlust going as long as you are fighting.
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Old September 29, 2020, 20:48   #15
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Also, werewolves in Tolkien seem to look just like wolves, but have intelligent spirits infused into them. So all the shapechange restrictions make sense if we picture that kind of werewolf.
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Old September 30, 2020, 07:59   #16
archolewa
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Originally Posted by DavidMedley View Post
Also, werewolves in Tolkien seem to look just like wolves, but have intelligent spirits infused into them. So all the shapechange restrictions make sense if we picture that kind of werewolf.
This is largely how I imagine it. This is the form that Sauron's werewolf shape takes, and humanoid wolf monster just feels kind of...goofy in a Tolkienesque world.

I'm honestly OK with werewolf form burning SP faster as well. As it is, my heavy reliance on the form means I almost always have full SP in the mid and endgame, so I don't mind there being a bit more SP pressure.
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Old September 30, 2020, 12:30   #17
Grotug
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In general this sounds good. However, slowing when you miss is one serious downside. Maybe its not a big deal in the endgame, but many of the most dangerous enemies (including Morgoth) are so fast that it can be difficult to get up to speed with, and double moves risk instant death.

The last thing I need is to risk double moves from Morgoth because I missed! I feel like if you want a big downside, making it so expensive that you cant cast it more than once or twice with full SP would be sufficient. Keep in mind that draining all or most of your SP means you cant cast other spells until you get it back up. Thats a pretty high opportuniy cost for a class so reliant on in combat spells.

I mean, you could spam potions of mana, but using this spell every other turn isnt doing any more damage than bumping every turn. Especially since missing would be the equivalent of missing every attack!

Thats actually another concern. The final spell has two modes of failure: spell failure and attack missing. I worry that the two combined will make the spell too unreliable to be worth using. Im willing to wait and see though.
I think having a low chance of insta death is a small price to pay for being able to take Morgoth out in a handful of turns!

So as to not be too overpowered in the late game you could have the slowness effect be that it divides your current speed by 2, rather than just reducing your speed by -10 (trivial if you have +40 speed). This way trivializing major fights will difficult or impossible: I don't think it's possible to reach 6x normal speed, due to the diminishing returns on excessive speed. 6x normal speed is what you would need in order to prevent being double moved my Sauron, for example, and other foes that "moves very quickly".

Dividing speed by 2 might be too brutal, perhaps dividing by 1.5 would be more reasonable. I believe that would make normal speed appear as -5 in the game's original/old speed display (0.75x normal speed) and +30 speed as +15 (2.5x speed). I'm trying to remember what the player's actual speed is when they have something like +60 speed. I think it's something like approaching 5x but not quite which is about +23 in the game's old/original display of speed. So with lots of excess speed you could achieve safety from double moves by Sauron and most every monster in the game, but not Morgoth (that seems more appropriate).

You could call the new spell *Shatter* instead of Smite (Titans similarly shatter with insane damage).

I might also suggest that the *Shatter* attack would blast a hole in the ground instead of make a lava square. The hole could be a pit trap. So basically you'd be able to create traps on the dungeon floor (that monsters I suppose could ignore like other traps), or for more fun and distinctiveness for the spell, the new trap would need to be discovered by monsters either by good perception (master rogues would see them before stepping on them, but most others would not).

Perhaps this trap could be a new trap type: it looks like a normal pit and behaves like one most of the time, but there is a chance for the trap to confuse, stun or hallucinate the player (or monster) -- (with the chance to hallucinate being lower than that of to confuse or to stun). So the created trap would be unique to the spell, which adds nice flavor and exclusivity to a spell that is relatively rarefied and expensive.
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Old September 30, 2020, 19:11   #18
DavidMedley
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These are interesting ideas, Grotug, but labor intensive. I don't think I'll be the guy to program traps for monsters.

"having a low chance of insta death is a small price to pay for being able to take Morgoth out in a handful of turns!" -- I don't think many would agree with this statement.
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Old September 30, 2020, 19:36   #19
whartung
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Originally Posted by Grotug View Post
I think having a low chance of insta death is a small price to pay for being able to take Morgoth out in a handful of turns!
Philosophically, I'm totally opposed to this.

Arguably the entire point of the game is to survive RNG and prepare yourself for the final fight.

If, in the end, the final fight is nothing but a dice roll (since by definition, you can't prevent "insta-death", no matter how rare), then it makes all of the earlier preparation moot.

There's enough RNG going on with the summons and everything else, but even those aren't necessarily insta-death.

People should be able to go in to the final fight confident through their experience and gearing and preparation that they will prevail, but having it all for naught due to a single bad roll I think really disrespects all the work the player put in to get to that point in the first place.

Of course the player can CHOOSE to go in ill-prepared, thus relying on luck. "As long as X, Y, and Z don't happen, I should prevail."

But players that take the time to gear properly should be able to take the game with certainty.
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Old September 30, 2020, 21:32   #20
archolewa
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I agree with Whartung. Dropping your speed by half (or any multiplier) would make the spell a bigger dud than the current Quake. The only monsters it would be smart to use the spell on would the ones you dont need to.

At least a flat penalty like -5 you can compensate for. Might be worth wearing that extra Ring of Speed instead of a Ring of Damage if it means you can safely use your uber spell.

Creating a pit rather than lava would be fine. It would allow you to use the side effects of the spell as an escape! Jumping through a hole in the ground that you yourself created to escape Omarax has a certain cinematic flair.
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