Angband.oook.cz
Angband.oook.cz
AboutVariantsLadderForumCompetitionComicScreenshotsFunniesLinks

Go Back   Angband Forums > Angband > Vanilla

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old November 26, 2019, 03:50   #1
Sky
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: somewhere on the south coast
Age: 47
Posts: 1,332
Sky is on a distinguished road
MoD *Slay Evil* vs Holy Avenger

i have two Mace of Disruption:

1. Holy Avenger - 5d8 +18, DPS: 410

2. *Slay Evil* - 5d8 +15, DPS: 393

both are on 4 blows per round. both are +15 to hit.

i thought *Slay* was substantially stronger than Slay but im not seeing the right numbers here.
__________________
"i can take this dracolich"
Sky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 26, 2019, 06:04   #2
jevansau
Adept
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Age: 60
Posts: 171
jevansau is on a distinguished road
It depends on which *Slay. Only Dragon, Demon and Undead get the x5 slay. The others get the same as for a plain slay.

They all get a stat plus and a power though.
jevansau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 26, 2019, 06:10   #3
Sky
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: somewhere on the south coast
Age: 47
Posts: 1,332
Sky is on a distinguished road
are you trying to say that Slay Evil And *Slay Evil* have the same bonus?
__________________
"i can take this dracolich"
Sky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 26, 2019, 06:50   #4
DavidMedley
Adept
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 175
DavidMedley is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by jevansau View Post
It depends on which *Slay. Only Dragon, Demon and Undead get the x5 slay. The others get the same as for a plain slay.
I didn't believe it, then I looked in slay.txt, and now I do. That is counter-intuitive and misleading!
DavidMedley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 26, 2019, 22:49   #5
Derakon
Prophet
 
Derakon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 8,941
Derakon is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky View Post
are you trying to say that Slay Evil And *Slay Evil* have the same bonus?
This is correct. Slay Evil is such a broad category that giving an enhanced multiplier would almost certainly be overpowered.

What we should probably do is remove *Slay* Evil egos, or at least rename them to something else. Ditto with *Slay* Animal, which IIRC has the same issue. For those weapons *Slay* is just Slay + incidental bonuses.
Derakon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 26, 2019, 23:20   #6
luneya
Swordsman
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 255
luneya is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
This is correct. Slay Evil is such a broad category that giving an enhanced multiplier would almost certainly be overpowered.

What we should probably do is remove *Slay* Evil egos, or at least rename them to something else. Ditto with *Slay* Animal, which IIRC has the same issue. For those weapons *Slay* is just Slay + incidental bonuses.
Perhaps. It would be nice to be able to do something more subtle such as making *slay evil* a 2.5x bonus (stronger than slay evil, 2x), but the Angband code notoriously uses integer arithmetic for everything, so simply changing the data value wouldn't allow for that, and going all the way up to 3x *slay evil* might indeed be OP.
luneya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 26, 2019, 23:35   #7
Pete Mack
Prophet
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 5,414
Donated: $40
Pete Mack is on a distinguished road
*Slay Evil* at one point had a random ability guaranteed. When it was ESP, it made for a really excellent weapon. I don't understand why that was removed.
Pete Mack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 27, 2019, 01:37   #8
Sky
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: somewhere on the south coast
Age: 47
Posts: 1,332
Sky is on a distinguished road
ok well, it's confusing. And, are you sure slay animal is 2x ?

so, to recap:

plain "slay" is 2x base dice damage in all circumstances.

*Slay* is 5x for Dragon, Undead and Demon.

*slay* is ... 3x? for Giant, IIRC Animal, Orc, Troll, and 2x on Evil.



i know that *slay weapons still get random abilities, i had a *slay orc with ESP on it (frankly a bit OP if you ask me, but im not complaining) in my recent run, but couldn't tell you if *slay evil does or doesnt get extra abilities - i would assume it does.
__________________
"i can take this dracolich"
Sky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 27, 2019, 03:08   #9
Derakon
Prophet
 
Derakon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 8,941
Derakon is on a distinguished road
Slay evil and, I'm pretty sure, animal are x2. All other slays are x3. *Slay* demon/dragon/undead are x5 (and the weapon gets an extra ability); all other *Slays* are just the standard slay with extra abilities.

Evil and animal are x2 because those "races" are extremely common; being able to deal x3 damage to evil in particular would be overpowered.
Derakon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 27, 2019, 07:22   #10
wobbly
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 2,104
wobbly is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Mack View Post
*Slay Evil* at one point had a random ability guaranteed. When it was ESP, it made for a really excellent weapon. I don't understand why that was removed.
Still possible by the looks of it, it seems all the *slays* are 1 in 3 chance of a power & 2 in 3 chance of a base resist.
wobbly is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Slay evil is a boring brand wobbly Vanilla 12 January 2, 2019 13:02
Slay Demon /Slay Undead Mark Vanilla 7 June 18, 2014 06:54
Holy Avenger Question Moriwen Vanilla 12 November 3, 2012 11:05
[FA 033] Weapon Choice , Doriath / Holy Avenger darkdrone Variants 5 May 1, 2008 10:35
Vanilla Naming: *slay evil* vs slay evil Mondkalb Vanilla 1 May 2, 2007 18:42


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:02.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.