Angband Forums blow calculations in V
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July 22, 2018, 12:53   #11
wobbly
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by Carnivean I don't know the details of the table, but would it be possible to create groups of weapons that scale differently? Slashers are smaller, faster blades and get lots of blows, scale with dex and don't care much for strength, and struggle to get criticals. Daggers, rapiers and sabres. Stabbers scale with dex more than str, but get reasonable critical strikes. Spears mostly, but also lancers. Obviously heavy stabbers get good one hit numbers, but struggle to get multiple blows. Carvers are heavier blades and can deal heavier strikes, scale with both dex and str vs weight and get more criticals. Long, broad and the huge swords. Bashers scale more with str than dex and get the most criticals.
I think so? I'd have to test. I think the ratios of str & dex to the weight might be the diagonals? Trouble is there's different combinations hitting the same lines, so I'll have to play & see if that's whether it really is.

 July 22, 2018, 13:21 #12 wobbly Veteran   Join Date: May 2012 Location: Adelaide, Australia Posts: 1,682 Ok. Top to bottom : adjusted str to weight ratio Left to right: dexterity band L to R diagonal: both increase R to L diag: the pt blow numbers currently a constant. Almost. adj_str: scales up exponential str adj_dex: the current dex ranges That's how that table works, right?
 July 22, 2018, 14:32 #13 wobbly Veteran   Join Date: May 2012 Location: Adelaide, Australia Posts: 1,682 The 50 diagonal is 2 blows. The l-shaped bands where it steps up & down in speed - sorta y= -1 / x but in a square table form. (the l-shape not the energy cost) Last edited by wobbly; July 22, 2018 at 15:03.
 July 22, 2018, 17:08 #14 wobbly Veteran   Join Date: May 2012 Location: Adelaide, Australia Posts: 1,682 So I think the least disruptive way to create 2 behaviors is to cut off around a specific no. of blows. Then I can mirror or invert the curves to either side & keep the same pattern just reversed on either side of the cutoff.
 July 22, 2018, 17:54 #15 wobbly Veteran   Join Date: May 2012 Location: Adelaide, Australia Posts: 1,682 Ok there are 4 quadrants. 1 blow top left. 6 blows bottom right. 3 along a slightly bent diagonal. So I can probably match or mirror behavior in any of those 4
 July 22, 2018, 20:00 #16 wobbly Veteran   Join Date: May 2012 Location: Adelaide, Australia Posts: 1,682 So went simple. Added curves in the 1-2 blow band then double checked nothing ridiculous happens. Got a character spread carrying a light and heavy weapon that I'll put up when my internet connection decides to behave.
July 22, 2018, 20:48   #17
wobbly
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Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,682
Quote:
 Originally Posted by wobbly So went simple. Added curves in the 1-2 blow band then double checked nothing ridiculous happens. Got a character spread carrying a light and heavy weapon that I'll put up when my internet connection decides to behave.
Edit : I have a player-calcs.c file ready for testing. Anyone interested? Where's best to upload?

 July 22, 2018, 21:55 #18 wobbly Veteran   Join Date: May 2012 Location: Adelaide, Australia Posts: 1,682 Stupid question. If you wanted to map the blows table onto a room template how would you do it? Maybe as a pit or nest. Last edited by wobbly; July 22, 2018 at 22:01.
July 22, 2018, 22:38   #19
Derakon
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 8,542
Quote:
 Originally Posted by wobbly Stupid question. If you wanted to map the blows table onto a room template how would you do it? Maybe as a pit or nest.
It's a 2D dataset, which is tricky to do with monsters. I'd go with monsters that have a few standard variations so you can represent progression. Maybe hydras, hounds, wraiths, dragons, ainur?

July 24, 2018, 22:20   #20
wobbly
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Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,682
Quote:
 Originally Posted by luneya Yes, exactly. I agree that it's good having a progression from light weapons to heavy ones as your character gets stronger, but the situation of characters that don't get a second blow even with a dagger or whip breaks the model. Perhaps the best solution is to shift the formula so that every character--even a mage with minimum str--gets two blows with a minimum-weight weapon, and then blows increase as the player gets stronger (possibly increasing more for melee classes), and decrease with weapon weight. Or we could increase the penalty for having a weapon that's too heavy to be wielded effectively with a given strength, but tweaking the blows formula will probably work better, and we can always strengthen other damage sources and monster hps to compensate if the adjusted formulae make melee stronger across the board.
So this one doesn't take a lot of fiddling.
The problem is almost entirely to do with the current 0 line of the table:
No mage will ever cross that line with any weapon. Every weapon is the same weight in a starting mages hand.
A priest may or may not cross it. Not with a 12lb weapon & for a whip if it's got the str it doesn't have the dex.
Some weapon weights will never cross that line. Half-troll warrior or not.

As long as something you want to have blows is on that line, it can't be balanced. It's a mage with a dagger & a mage with a zweihander. A warrior with a zweihander. A priest with a mace.

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