Should low INT spellcasters be able to learn one spell per level?

[PowerWyrm]

Let's say I'm starting a half-troll mage and I put all my points into str/dex/con to play like a weak fighter in the beginning. I won't be able to learn any spell if my int is low enough, while still having mana to cast spells because the number of spells per level I can learn is lower than 1. But why should I be restricted by number when mana restriction is enough? Maybe consider setting the lowest number of spells you can learn per level to 1?

[Ingwe Ingweron]

If you've chosen to play your Half Troll Mage like a weak fighter, putting all your points into Str, Dex, and Con, resulting in a very low Int, that was your choice. Why should you not suffer some minor consequences to your choice? If you made that choice, I believe it's completely appropriate that you don't get to learn the spells yet.

[Pete Mack]

It *might* be reasonable to give a minimum of 1 spell from the start. Beyond that, I don't see why this even matters. If your INT is that bad, you won't be able to cast more than the very basic (i.e. detection) spells anyway, and for quite some time. Even MM has limited use at low mana and high fail rate.

[Sky]

funny that the HT is actually the best example, despite the far lower mana than, say, a HE, his regen helps you cast a lot of low-cost spells (MM for example).

.. and, once you can cast MM, what else do you need?

CL1 -> MM
CL46->MBan

nothing else in between

[tangar]

Having mage, having mana and not being able to cast spell - oxymoron

Half-troll mage with 8 INT - you can not learn any spells at beginning.

Half-troll mage with 9 INT - you can.

This border doesn't make sense.

[Werbaer]

Originally Posted by tangar

Having mage, having mana and not being able to cast spell - oxymoron

Half-troll mage with 8 INT - you can not learn any spells at beginning.
Half-troll mage with 9 INT - you can.

It's only the level 1 Int 8 mage that has mana and can't learn a spell.
Oh - and the level 2 Int 6 mage, and level 3/4 Int 5 mage.

I suggest adjusting adj_mag_study[] to adj_mag_mana[] at very low values.
For normal mages with Int 12+ it doesn't make a difference.
Low level mages with very low Int will be able to learn the first spell when they get their first spell point.

const int adj_mag_study[STAT_RANGE] =
{
	  0	/* 3 */,
	  0	/* 4 */,        /* -> 10 */
	 10	/* 5 */,        /* -> 20 */
	 20	/* 6 */,        /* -> 30 */
	 30	/* 7 */,        /* -> 40 */
	 40	/* 8 */,        /* -> 50 */
	 50	/* 9 */,        /* -> 60 */
	 60	/* 10 */,       /* -> 70 */
	 70	/* 11 */,       /* -> 75 */
	 80	/* 12 */,
	 85	/* 13 */,
	 90	/* 14 */,
	 95	/* 15 */,
	100	/* 16 */,

[Hounded]

I see the concern here but, on the other hand, I don't know that I comprehend it.

If one designs or selects a challenge race-class combination that's what it is. If the combination is so difficult that it's unplayable then you've succeeded really well.

I remember a Halfling mage from several versions ago who didn't get spells for ages (or it felt that way) and ridiculous fails when he did (also had a freak drop of Raal's early in the game but that was just RNG giving me the finger). Ultimately he died messily but it was a "different" experience that I'll probably try again when I feel sufficiently masochistic.

I guess I just don't understand why one would change the rules to make a challenge character easier rather than just playing a combination that better fits your expectations/style.

'm I missing something?

[Werbaer]

Originally Posted by Hounded

I guess I just don't understand why one would change the rules to make a challenge character easier rather than just playing a combination that better fits your expectations/style.

My proposed fix isn't intended to make the game easier. When a level 20 mage with 10 Int has a total of 14 SP available, it doesn't make a difference whether he is able to learn 12 or 14 spells.

The point is to avoid the situation of a low level mage with SP, but no spells.

[Hounded]

Doh! Yeah, I got tied up in yhe discussion and missed the point.

Makes sense that if you have mana you should have capability to learn at least one spell (whatever that spell may be).

Thanks.