Any tips for a newbie?

[Adam]

Hello, i would like to ask a few things because a feel like my playstyle with fighters is very bad at deeper levels. I won the game but I'm still interested in improving my skills.
- What is the correct strategy with fighters against greater balrogs and such burners/drainers? Just leave them alone or TO if needed? Or drop staffs/scrolls/wands in a safe place? I don't like the later because I can lose them easily.
- Do the monsters drain charges randomly? In my last game I felt like they always go for the best staffs - only drained the heal/speed/TO staffs but did not touch the clw/teleport self (i usually don't carry clw at that depth but this time i just found it on the floor)
- What is the adequate dpr against Morgoth? I went with trident of Ulmo which did ~500 but I was expecting something more powerful.
- Wands of drain life/annihilation seem to do more damage than my strongest bolts/arrows - do fighters usually collect those wands?

As next thing I started a gnome mage in iron man (force descent, no recall), i just reached clvl 19, depth 650'. I started with 1-1 copy of the first 3 books + food + oil + torches + 1 clw.
- What is the native depth of the 4th book? I could really use those spells soon.
- How many copies of each spellbook should i carry?
- What is the reasonable speed at this depth with which I'm more or less safe? I'm on -1 currently but i don't like it as panthers and the fast centipedes can easily get me. In this game i'm lucky as i just found an ESP amulet which helps a lot but generally overweight seems to be a problem in mage iron man games.

[Estie]

Originally Posted by Adam

Hello, i would like to ask a few things because a feel like my playstyle with fighters is very bad at deeper levels. I won the game but I'm still interested in improving my skills.
- What is the correct strategy with fighters against greater balrogs and such burners/drainers? Just leave them alone or TO if needed? Or drop staffs/scrolls/wands in a safe place? I don't like the later because I can lose them easily.
- Do the monsters drain charges randomly? In my last game I felt like they always go for the best staffs - only drained the heal/speed/TO staffs but did not touch the clw/teleport self (i usually don't carry clw at that depth but this time i just found it on the floor)
- What is the adequate dpr against Morgoth? I went with trident of Ulmo which did ~500 but I was expecting something more powerful.
- Wands of drain life/annihilation seem to do more damage than my strongest bolts/arrows - do fighters usually collect those wands?

As next thing I started a gnome mage in iron man (force descent, no recall), i just reached clvl 19, depth 650'. I started with 1-1 copy of the first 3 books + food + oil + torches + 1 clw.
- What is the native depth of the 4th book? I could really use those spells soon.
- How many copies of each spellbook should i carry?
- What is the reasonable speed at this depth with which I'm more or less safe? I'm on -1 currently but i don't like it as panthers and the fast centipedes can easily get me. In this game i'm lucky as i just found an ESP amulet which helps a lot but generally overweight seems to be a problem in mage iron man games.

Warrior:

Greater balrogs are to be avoided as fighting them normally leads to a net loss of resources. Within reason, of course - if you run out of teleport other charges and the only thing left between you and the treasures of a GV is the balrog, then yes fight it.

I am fairly certain the they pick a random slot for their draining, but if I am wrong I am sure someone will correct me.

500 dpr is on the low end for a warrior, but very much within normal limits. Typically, when you have something like Ulmo and are able to deal with M, you gather more consumables till you are satisfied. If you find better equipment before accumulating a sufficient amount of potions, congrats; otherwise, the fight takes a bit longer.

When using your launcher for damage, look for extra shots. Slay evil ammo + extra shots makes the damage ramp up, often higher than your melee. But since warriors already have good offense with their melee weapon, more often than not I use the launcher as a stat stick, to cover something else like ESP or dexterity and so allow me to use a damage ring or such to improve my melee even further.

Mage:

I dont know the native depth of book4, but if you are playing the latest version and dont have it when you need it, you are just unlucky.

I would carry at the very least 3 of each book, more if at all possible (but dont run around with speed -5). Since fire toting monsters cant easily be avoided in ironman, losing all books of one type is a very real danger.

Non-negative speed is a far off dream for ironman mages. You will always be overburdened, so the only way out is finding your first speed item. Consider rings of escaping, but watch your spell fail chance. Use either none or 2, as the penalties dont stack. Hopefully you have put 8 of your 20 starting points into str (and the remaining 12 into int, of course).

[Pete Mack]

Avoid greater balrogs with ALL classes unless you have fire immunity. If you do fight one, use archery (or Meteor Swarm/Mana Storm). They are Hell on stuff in your pack.

[Adam]

Thanks for the advices!
I just play angband occasionally so I'm still on the 4.0.3 version but probably spellbook native depth is not something which has been changed since then.

With the fighter I also found that the launcher slot is better for stat/res items because the melee is much more powerful. I was too cautious so I gathered many consumables by the time I met M, I just found strange that I had to use a weapon found at 3100' (I could do just a little more damage with my SoS but I found Ulmo better). On the other hand the rng was nice to me in other places, I found Narya, Nenya and a PDSM within one hour of gameplay just before the final fight... also 4 Rune of Prot scrolls dropped within one level which helped a lot (http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=19818).

About the mage I'm thinking about dropping some stuff just when I enter a level and collect them when I'm leaving but that is risky as leaving is sometimes urgent. Maybe extra spellbooks can be handled that way (bring 3 of each with myself, drop the rest on the floor - if I lose them it's still not a catastrophy). I guess staff of identify does not worth the 5 lb so I can just drop them. What about staff of SI? I have the reveal spell but it costs too many mana points to use it frequently. Standard ammunition is also something which is not to be carried, right? Only magical ones. (http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=19851 - no 4th spellbook yet but otherwise nice items + brigand dropping a dex potion at 550)

One more question about artifacts: when do I exactly lose them forever? Let's say I see a ring of unknown type on the floor. I already know all possible types so I'm sure it must be a ring of power. If I just see it but don't pick it up, do I lose it forever? Or if I pick it up but do not identify and then drop it? Or only if I successfully identified it?

Edit: Few more questions:
- What about stat swap potions for an IM mage? I guess intellect should be used. But should I risk +STR and +CON potions which may decrease my INT?
- Is diving also a good strategy in IM? I explored the levels so far more or less because I had the feeling I don't have enough mana for lower level monsters but I guess this is not the good way to play, right?

[Sky]

not trying to derail thread, but speaking of mobs destroying things in your inventory .. i was thinking it would be nice if those items activated.
for example, a potion of healing breaks in your inventory, you get healed for 150 dmg. drain a TP staff to 0, you get teleported.

[Estie]

Books have been moved upwards fairly recently, you might still be using the old version - I dont know.

Dropping stuff you are willing to risk losing in a corner is a good plan, yes. Wether to drop ammo, I cannot say - it depends on how much you have and what else you are carrying. Just make a good guess. Identify staff is superfluous since you have the spell, SI I would keep.

You dont lose artifacts when you see them, only when you identify them.

Stat swaps: with mage I drink int and str, but dont go overboard; when you start getting fractional increases its time to stop.

Diving is risky, especially if you are unexperienced. I dont know how you normally play - an ironman character is not a good idea to start learning how to dive with. One of the ideas of that high risk strategy is to accept losing a few characters, but speed up their development to the point where you end up winning eventually.

[Ingwe Ingweron]

Originally Posted by Sky

not trying to derail thread, but speaking of mobs destroying things in your inventory .. i was thinking it would be nice if those items activated.
for example, a potion of healing breaks in your inventory, you get healed for 150 dmg...

Yeah, and when you have a cold do you just spill cough medicine on your hands?

[Derakon]

Originally Posted by Estie

Stat swaps: with mage I drink int and str, but dont go overboard; when you start getting fractional increases its time to stop.

Stat gain actually accelerates once your internal stat is higher than 18. You can go from 18 to 18/30 in a single potion, which is internally equivalent to gaining 3 points in the stat because every /10 is treated as a single +1. Note this is the internal stat, not the displayed stat as modified by race/class/equipment.

[Pete Mack]

Those fractional stats used to be useful, since stat drainers could drain less than a full point

[Nick]

Originally Posted by Ingwe Ingweron

Yeah, and when you have a cold do you just spill cough medicine on your hands?

I like to think that the character licks a small amount of the potion off their hands, but then the healing effect is balanced by the damage the glass slivers do