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Old December 10, 2018, 17:03   #41
Sideways
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The last ring winner is Aver's from PosChengband 7.0.2; and the only changes to rings since then should make them easier; so ring ought to be winnable.

I'll look into the skillmaster thing, thanks.
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Old December 12, 2018, 23:31   #42
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I've seen this issue before and have shrugged it off, but it does lead me to wonder about a problem with the core Math routines in Frog and many other *bands.

The particular issue I saw today;

A pair of soft leather boots was selling for 10 gold.
A pair of soft leather boots, 25% off, was selling for 9 gold.

I can think of no math that would allow this. IF the base boots were actually 10.7 then the reduced cost with round up would be 9 gold, BUT then the base boots should be 11.

1 gold is not the issue, it is that this seems to indicate a flaw in the base math routines.
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Old December 13, 2018, 00:10   #43
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I think that has to do with the order in which certain things are calculated. In this case the boots probably have a "real" value of 6, which becomes 5 after the discount is applied and the resulting value is rounded up. Then that's multiplied by some factor in the store, and if that factor is something like 1.73, you get 6*1.73=10.38=10 and 5*1.73=8.65=9.

Although it may seem odd to apply the discount so early (and that is the root cause of the weird prices you're seeing), from a coding point of view it's easier to do it that way.
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Old December 13, 2018, 04:11   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sideways View Post
I think that has to do with the order in which certain things are calculated. In this case the boots probably have a "real" value of 6, which becomes 5 after the discount is applied and the resulting value is rounded up. Then that's multiplied by some factor in the store, and if that factor is something like 1.73, you get 6*1.73=10.38=10 and 5*1.73=8.65=9.

Although it may seem odd to apply the discount so early (and that is the root cause of the weird prices you're seeing), from a coding point of view it's easier to do it that way.
Ah, okay. Yes applying the discount early makes the process order dubious.

Is the same true of other things, Saves, Fails, To-Hit, Damage, etc...??
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Old December 13, 2018, 16:15   #45
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I'm not sure how the concept would even apply to something like saves or fails or to-hit.

And discounts have that process order for a reason - it means all discounts can be calculated once in one place in the code, and don't need to be separately applied by every piece of code that wants a discounted price, and item values don't need any scaling. It makes the code a lot easier to maintain, and the errors in shop prices that result from it are very minor.

Could I fix it with some hack - "apply the discount later in this special case", and then do the applying where necessary - sure, but it wouldn't be a good return on the coding investment.
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Old December 13, 2018, 18:27   #46
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Sorry, it wasn't meant to be an accusation.
I was just curious about the inner workings of complex calculations. I am only remotely familiar with coding, classes in BASIC and Pascal 40 years ago, so looking into the source is not really an option. I was just curious about the process order and whether or not it rendered the displayed numbers as meaningful.
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Old December 13, 2018, 18:46   #47
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Skill Masters with 5 points in Burglary don't get friendly piranhas from traps either.

Edit: Any monster you ride on will log every step you take as a non-spell-cast turn, more or less permanently ruining their spell % chance in recall. This even takes precedence over the probing spell. (After riding around a Hell Knight on a ring character for a while it has a listed 1.88% chance, 854 out of 45245 moves.)

Edit Edit: Does weapon proficiency affect skillmaster throwing to_hit?

MORE EDIT: Anyone know what a good set of schools for a Blood Mage is? I'm considering Death as a primary for those vampirism spells (and while I haven't tested the spells, the vampirism wand still heals a blood mage fully) and then maybe Armageddon to begin with and then switch to sorcery once I have a good set of damage spells from the Death Realm.

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Old December 23, 2018, 18:25   #48
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Weaponsmithing - there is no option to split a stack when Enhancing or Absorbing. You can drop a partial stack, enhance and pickup the remainder. Just not Enhance one out of a stack.

Melee Gloves for hybrids - With spiked, studded, wizard and thief gloves/gauntlets, it seems that wearable gloves like Free Action have become exceedingly rare. So, either take combat penalties, mana and fail penalties, or going without until your stats raise to overcome the penalties. Although something like -7,-8 (hit/dmg) is fairly hard to overcome in a characters first 30-40 levels.
EDIT: Just found Spiked Gauntlets of the Wizard (-9, -1) [4, -14] (+3) {InMd}

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Old December 23, 2018, 21:24   #49
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Thief gloves are good for all classes. Mage types can wear them without penalties because of the +DEX, and for more melee-oriented characters an early pair of thief gloves is also often a strong option (free stealth and sust_dex with no loss of damage, or even improved damage, thanks to the +DEX and +to-hit) unless they've found gloves of slaying first. Apart from characters with 0x FA from other sources, I'm not sure who'd prefer gloves of free action to gloves of the thief.

Spiked gauntlets and studded gloves are object base types, not egos; they can generate with all the same egos (including Free Action) as other glove types.
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Old December 23, 2018, 21:47   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sideways View Post
Thief gloves are good for all classes. Mage types can wear them without penalties because of the +DEX, and for more melee-oriented characters an early pair of thief gloves is also often a strong option (free stealth and sust_dex with no loss of damage, or even improved damage, thanks to the +DEX and +to-hit) unless they've found gloves of slaying first. Apart from characters with 0x FA from other sources, I'm not sure who'd prefer gloves of free action to gloves of the thief.

Spiked gauntlets and studded gloves are object base types, not egos; they can generate with all the same egos (including Free Action) as other glove types.
I have never seen Thief gloves without a huge loss of Damage and to-hit, something +Dex/Stl doesn't begin to fix. Seriously I think only a single pair had a shop value above 1 coin, or a score worth noticing.
Once I get below dLevel 30 or so I start seeing them with decent numbers. But shallow? I wouldn't wear them on a dare, much rather do totally without.
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