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Old March 25, 2019, 14:08   #11
Pete Mack
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Rods of light and illumination would really help you with spotted jellies. Also, you don't need to phase away, just move back a square. The problematic jellies are gelatinous cube, ochre jelly, acidic cytoplasm, and black pudding. They all move, and some move fast.
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Old March 25, 2019, 21:15   #12
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If you happen to find an amulet that slows you down by -1 or -2, it's Amulet of Inertia and it has free action.
It's a bullshit way of gaining resistance to paralysis but that bullshit can still save one's life.
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Old March 26, 2019, 04:10   #13
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Thanks a lot for the input folks. I sort of went halfway towards an attempted dive to D:29, with an emphasis of fully exploring D:18 and D:19 to build my character up with needed items and upgrades. It ended up being cut a bit short due to orcish uniques crashing the party on D:23 that forced a Recall up to town for safety.

Complete N00b’s Journey: Part 3-3

So with a tentative plan due to weight problems, I proceed to recall back to D:18 and try to explore the level to gain much-needed resistances. I kill some nagas and other animals to get me to level 18, and find a staff of Cure Light Wounds. D:19 gives me a wooden torch of brightness, and an orc vault that takes me to level 19. Killing an Uruk group drops a Wand of clone monster, which I drop, and potions of slowness and restore life levels, which I drop after quaff-id’ing. I also find a wand of wonder, and a pack of white wolves to kill to get me to level 20. I find a ring of Open Wounds, which are useless and I ignore, and a wand of magic missile, which was rather useful. Still, however, there were no useful items to be found in those levels. It was then that I got the advice to go to D:30-35 for stat potion boosts, so I began my plan to get to D:29 at all costs. At D:20, I picked up scrolls of identify rune, which allowed me to find out that my unidentified amulet WAS an amulet of resist acid and that my whip had the *Slay Troll* property. So the four resistances problem was solved, but not the free action property. I then proceed to pick up a ring of Flames [+7], which replaced my Ring of Protection [+8] and killed Bullroarer the Hobbit, who dropped the Set of Leather Gloves ‘Cammithrim’ (+5,+5) [1,+10] <+1> light, the Hard Leather Armour of Himring [20, +15], and the Long Sword ‘Elvagil’ (2d5) (+12, +12) <+2 DEX, +2 stealth>. Those were some nice drops from Bullroarer for sure! I also learned the runes of resist chaos and resist nether from my remaining scrolls of Identify rune. After dealing with Cold Hounds and a wererat, I got to level 21, and also had the poison protection rune identified. I also quaff-id’d a Potion of Salt Water, prompting an emergency reading of a scroll of satisfy hunger to stay alive, and finally found a freaking lantern. I finished off the level by read-id’ing a scroll of teleport level. D:21 saw me getting my dexterity drained by a quasit and picking up a Cedar Staff that turned out to be a staff of darkness upon use. D:22 had an unknown wand that did not identify when zapped at a creature, and Smeagol, who I dispatched without too much of a problem. I also found a wand of Lightning bolts and a unknown ring on that level before descending to D:23. On D:23, I also found a staff of teleportation, which was of a huge help from evading Bolg, Son of Azog, and Ugluk the Uruk. I unfortunately quaff-id’d a potion of Contemplation, which made things quite a bit harder on the load. It took all of my potions of speed and all of my potions of cure serious wounds to survive a fight with Uruk. During my phase door maneuvering, I picked up the Scimitar ‘Haradekket’ (4d2) (+9, +11) <+2 DEX>, which I didn’t equip untl after dispatching Uruk due to the hullabaloo. Looking at the damage of the new artifact, though, allowed me to dump my Lead-filed Mace of Frost, and free up quite a bit of space. Lugdush and Azog tag-teaming together, was too much for me, and I soon ran out of scrolls of Phase door and staff of teleportation charges and was forced to Recall for my life. I gave my unknown rings to the magic shop, where I learned that they were of Free Action and Feather Falling, and learned the Camithrim also had Free action. I also gave my unknown wand to the magic shop, where I learned that it was one of disable traps. I then proceeded to buy 2 additional scrolls of Recall, 24 Scrolls of Phase Door, a Staff of Detect Evil, 4 potions of Cure Critical Wounds, and 5 potions of Cure Serious Wounds.

Which missile weapon is better for me, The long bow or the Heavy Crossbow of Accuracy?

Which items would you buy in the black market?
A potion of *Healing*
A Rod of Probing
40 Bolts (1d5) (+6,+6) – assuming that you think the heavy crossbow is the better missile weapon for me to use.

I *think* I have all of the holes covered for now, since I have free action, see invisible, and the basic four resistances. Any other weaknesses besides my low strength that need to be covered before I attempt to dive further?

Which is a good target level to get to this time around- D:35? Fph said that D:35 is the deepest level for stat potions (30-35). I’m open to a good target depth to reach. I'm especially interested in knowing which level would have the highest chance towards generating potions of strength!

The ladder has been updated with my character’s progress, and any tips to get my character up to speed is appreciated!
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Old March 26, 2019, 05:17   #14
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I would not consider any of those three items to be a particularly high-value purchase, but on the flipside, money does you no good if you're dead. The Potion of *Healing* is a great item to have...for the final fights, and maybe as a panic button in the late game. For your depth, though, Potions of Healing without the *s are more than adequate and a lot cheaper, if you can find them of course. The Bolts would be a good improvement of your offense if you're using a crossbow. It's up to you if the extra weight is worth the damage there. The Rod of Probing can be handy for newbies since it tells you what monsters can do (i.e. updates your monster memory), but it doesn't tell you anything you can't learn by reading spoilers or just giving yourself full monster memory would.

For stat potions, they just get more and more common as you get deeper. There's no magic depth where you suddenly start finding a lot more of them, in my experience. That said, all stat potions have the same generation chance, except for Potions of Augmentation (+1 to all stats), which are rarer.

Good luck!
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Old March 26, 2019, 10:45   #15
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Well, this particular dive did not last too long, as I was forced to use all of my healing potions to get out of a hole caused by an apprentice summoning me next to some very nasty creatures on D:29.

Complete N00b’s Journey: Part 3-4

Tested out the crossbow, and I found out that the weight is still too heavy for me to carry even 40 bolts, so I stuck with the bow and bought 74 standard arrows. I ended up buying the potion of *Healing* for id purposes, and a scroll of Deep Descent to speed up my diving. I also bought 8 scrolls of Magic Mapping and left my staff of mapping at home to lighten the load. I then Recalled back to D:23, and read the scroll of descent to get me to D:28. I quickly got to level 23 by slaying a pack of energy hounds, and picked up a Copper-plated Rod, which turned out to be a rod of light. I descended to D:29, where I dispatched a group of black ogres and half-orcs to get an amulet of wisdom, which I drop. I also find an amulet of infravision and run into Sangahyandro and Agamaite of Umbar, which causes me to use up my potions of Cure Serious Wounds and Cure Critical wounds to deal with the two uniques, which get me to level 24 and drops a Hard Leather Cap of Wisdom [2,+10] <+2> as the only worthwhile item. An apprentice that summons me from offscreen REALLY caused me issues, as it put me right next to the black knight, forcing to use the rest of my potions, INCLUDING the potion of *Healing* to deal with his spells and escape. Left with no other choice, I had to do another Recall and leave behind quite a few things, including a wand that I never got to pick up and test. I did pick up the Set of Gauntlets ‘Paurhach’ (+5, +5) [3, +14], which gave me regeneration, but I couldn’t wear them due to the need for Free Action. Once back at the town, I use-id’d the staff of light and read-id’d a Scroll of Holy Chant. I then proceed to restock on my arrows and scrolls of phase door and buy up on all of the potions of Cure Critical wounds and Cure Serious Wounds that they had, which was 2 and 1 each. Cursing the overall bad luck of this run, I proceed to buy 7 potions of Cure Light Wounds and resolve to be less prone to avoiding fights. So yeah, I’m really not in a good place for further diving, and definitely do NOT feel that I should go any deeper than D:35 if I make it there at all.

So the next goal is just to get to D:35 and hopefully get potions of Strength or Brawn to fix my horrible strength score.

I try to avoid getting into fights, but I just somehow manage to run myself into some brutal ones due to low stealth, and shitty situations due to my low strength. I'm guessing a staff of Light is not necessary here?

The lack of speed potions or a staff of Speed is really screwing things over as well.

Any tips for me to get out of this mess is appreciated.
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Old March 26, 2019, 13:05   #16
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I'm not sure how much you use the activations, people tend to forget those.
Cammithrim can be used every turn at your current speed for 3d4 damage (not much, but free ranged damage). If you know that your opponents do not paralyze you can switch to Paurhach for 9d8 fire damage around every 10-12 turns (3 times the damage of your arrows). Actually i'm not sure that 2 packs of arrows is needed, your weapon now does much more damage than basic arrows, do you still use them a lot?
The ring can be used for fireballs, i guess you know that (interesting that I do not see activation time there, to be honest I did not use those recently).
Please note that in 4.1.3 Staff of Light and Wand of Light do not invoke the same spells, staff is good for lighting rooms, wand is for corridors. The later is useful for example against snagas and similar light-sensitive creatures if you can hit more of them with the spell.
You wrote about "rod of light" but I don't see it in the dump, just a wand.
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Old March 26, 2019, 14:28   #17
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Originally Posted by wizard44 View Post
Which is a good target level to get to this time around- D:35? Fph said that D:35 is the deepest level for stat potions (30-35). I’m open to a good target depth to reach. I'm especially interested in knowing which level would have the highest chance towards generating potions of strength!
Uh, no, sorry, probably I didn't explain myself well. Stat-gain potions don't stop showing up after DL35; you'll find them at every depth starting from DL30 onward (and there is a lower probability to find them earlier).

It used to be the case that DL30-35 was the optimal place to find them, so people spent a lot of time there (you can read this in old guides); the allocation probabilities now have been changed though, and lurking around those depth for a very long time is not recommended anymore. If you feel you can survive beyond that depth, go deeper; there's better loot there (fir instance, potions of augmentation at DL40).

The main reason I suggested that depth is that you get the additional payoff of stat gain potions, but you still don't find some dangerous monsters that come at a lower native depth; for instance, master vampires, liches, dreads inertia and gravity hounds, mature and ancient dragons all start to appear around DL35-40 (this is from some old notes of mine; it's possible that some of these changed in the latest versions). And from DL40-45 you get get ancient multi-hued dragons, drolems, death drakes, ethereal dragons.

TL;DR: it's not recommended anymore to stay at DL30-40 for a looong time; just go as deep as you can as long as it's not too dangerous. However, in general it's a good idea (in my opinion) to go at a slightly faster pace at DL20-30 and at a slower one at DL30-35.
Dive fast, die young, leave a high-CHA corpse.
You read a scroll labeled 'lol gtfo' of Teleport Level.
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Old March 26, 2019, 14:35   #18
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However, in general it's a good idea (in my opinion) to go at a slightly faster pace at DL20-30 and at a slower one at DL30-35.
This is certainly good advice, especially if you have FA and SI. I hate going without SI once dreads become a threat; FA is more optional.
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Old March 27, 2019, 08:03   #19
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I probably should have mentioned that I dropped the rod of light before Recalling the dungeon for weight reasons, as I didn't think that rod was good enough for me to carry. I am aware of the fireball activations, gloves, etc, but they don't really solve the problem by too much. Before I started this next run, I dropped the staff of light and a full pack of 40 arrows, to get me under the burden limit. My goal was to get to D:35 in order to improve my chances of getting stat potions, particularly that of strength. Unfortunately, I did not get that far, due to a sorcerer giving me another near-death experience.

Complete N00b's Journey: Part 3-5

Upon recalling back to D:29, the pathway to the nearest downstairs had nothing of note, so I immediately descended to D:30, which turned out to be a very dangerous level with lots of mummified trolls, grey wraiths, and skeleton ettins. Luckily, there was a potion of Brawn right in the room next to me, which I quaffed to increase my strength at the expense of Dexterity. Another black knight ruined the show with a blinding spell, forcing me to quaff one of my potions of Cure Light wounds to remove the condition. Luckily, a critical it in melee managed to finish it off without too much trouble. I also picked up a rod of Illumination in the level, which was a great find, and mowed down a group of uruks to get to level 25. I then ran into Wormtongue, who went down to melee fast and dropped a Pair of Steel Shod Boots of Free Action [7, +4]. I then proceeded to take out Mughash the Kobold Lord which I detected with detect evil, but not before finding a much-appreciated ring of Strength <+2 stealth, +2 speed>. Killing Mughash results in acquiring the Flail 'Totila' (3d6) (+16,+12), which was not nearly as effective as my Haradekket. I then quaff-id a potion of Healing, and find a rod of Treasure Location. I then take out Ufthak of Cirith Ungol through melee, who dropped a scimitar of *Slay Orc* that proved to be useless and was dropped. Slaying the orcish retinue yielded a potion of Dexterity. I then read-id the Scrolls of Trap Creation, Enchant Weapon To-Hit, and Acquirement, the last yielding Chain Mail of Resist Fire (-2) [32,+12], which was too heavy to offset the benefits of my artifact body armor. I then kill Nar, the Dwarf, who forces me to quaff my potions of Cure Light Wounds and drops a useless Pick upon dying. Not willing to further risk staying on such a dangeroud level, I then descend to D:31. There, I find a rod of Recall and a Wicker Shield [2, +7]. A wereworm does a number on my boots of Free Action and my Hard Leather Cap of Wisdom, but falls to my artifact sword. I also find a wand of Frost Bolts, which was useful in dealing with a 4-headed hydra. An eye vault proved too much for me to handle and destroyed quite a few potions of cure Light wounds as well as my potions of Cure Critical Wounds. I thus descend to D:32 and go to level 26 by killing a werebear and a young white dragon. Fire giants, however, force me to descend to D:33 to evade them. D:33 had a ring of Acid [+9} and a Indigo potion that was one of Resist Poison when quaff-id'd. I also found a fresh stock of Cure Serious Wounds potions, which were badly needed for me to continue the run. I then move to dispatch Grishnakh, the Hill Orc, who drops the Dagger Nimthanc, and Golfimbul, the Hill Orc, who drops the Rapier Forasgil. A load of apprentices and sorcerers almost do me in, forcing me to quaff my stack of cure serious wounds to stave off the assault. After summoning an ancient green dragon, I zap my rod of Recall and get the hell out of here, but not before picking up a wand of stone to Mud. Once at the town, I give one of my unidentified rings to the magic shop in return for them to identify it as a ring of Slow Digestion and stash the other unidentified ring at home. I then buy my scrolls of Phase door, buy 5 potions of Cure Critical Wounds, a leather shield of Resist Lightning [8, +7], and 2 scrolls of Recharging. I then re-gear up for the next dive.

I’ve updated the ladder with Anwe's current status. Based on what is there, do you have any input on a realistic depth to shoot for? I'm thinking that D:37 is the place to shoot for this guy, but I'm open to quality input here.

Can rods of Recall be destroyed in any way? If so, should I just ditch my Scrolls of Word of Recall at this point?

Last edited by wizard44; March 27, 2019 at 09:53.
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Old March 27, 2019, 09:35   #20
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Rods of recall can't be destroyed, but can be stolen.
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