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Old May 4, 2018, 15:23   #41
Derakon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moving Pictures View Post
What I find frustrating is that you can find a trap,, fail to disarm it, get gassed, wait until you're no longer confused, then trigger the same trap up to two-three times more! I figure after the first time, the chance of being harmed should decrease dramatically. Practically, it goes like this: if I've been gassed, I hold my breath; if I've been blinded, then I will close my eyes; if II've been roasted by fire, then whatever fuel did the roasting the first time is surely depleted a second, right?
Would it make sense for traps to only be triggerable once? So you can walk around the trap, or try to disarm it, or just blunder into it and take your licks?
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Old May 4, 2018, 17:48   #42
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Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
Would it make sense for traps to only be triggerable once? So you can walk around the trap, or try to disarm it, or just blunder into it and take your licks?

Personally I think this is the way to go. I've had some pretty frustrating instances of getting confused/blinded multiple times from the same trap, having to wait in-between disarm attempts. Falling into the same pit twice feels a bit absurd.
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Old May 4, 2018, 18:41   #43
Ramelandil
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The multiple-trigger issue, now that I think about it, is part of what frustrates me too. Especially with those teleport traps my less-magey @s repeatedly get bamfed to the other side of the level trying to disarm while some juicy room behind them blows me a Bronx cheer. Not to say that sufficiently smart enemies wouldn't plan it that way.

I do see the objection to having monsters fall prey to traps they might themselves have laid. However, while it's been a long time since I read Tolkien's non-LotR works, I don't recall Morgoth's servants being any less fractious than Sauron's. Therefore, I find it plausible that the left hand might be ignorant of the right hand's traps. That is to say, not all the monsters are going to know about every trap, and some of them could reasonably be exploitable against the monsters.

Having traps be one-time would play into this further, I think, because if even a half-troll @ is smart enough not to fall for an already-triggered trap, so are most of the enemies. It also prevents abuse like turning trapdoors into repeatable (if slow) "delete monster" effects.
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Old May 4, 2018, 19:15   #44
olbib
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Here's another idea. When you "disarm" a trap, it stays there, but it only affects monsters since you've modified it.
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Old May 4, 2018, 19:31   #45
Moving Pictures
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Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
Would it make sense for traps to only be triggerable once? So you can walk around the trap, or try to disarm it, or just blunder into it and take your licks?
Certainly at the early levels. At the later depths, I have no real qualms to some magic trap dropping 100 points of mana storm a few times, if @ doesn't get the message the first time.

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Originally Posted by Ramelandil View Post
I do see the objection to having monsters fall prey to traps they might themselves have laid. However, while it's been a long time since I read Tolkien's non-LotR works, I don't recall Morgoth's servants being any less fractious than Sauron's. Therefore, I find it plausible that the left hand might be ignorant of the right hand's traps. .
I have no problem with monsters native to the level avoiding traps. However, there is no reason a summoned critter should know the traps are there, though presumably, powerful critters (dragons, etc) would sense and avoid/neutralize/whatever.

But we do have cases where monsters don't co-operate. Had a situation where some unique summoned nasties. Can't remember the details, but the summoned critter breathed on the summoner, softening the unique up a little to allow @ to collect a few easy XP. So yeah, that summoned nasty ought to blunder into a trap or two....
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Old May 4, 2018, 19:42   #46
Pete Mack
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Yeah, the Tarrasque makes a good per if you have dual immunity and disenchantment resistance, especially if you can set it up where your target is much closer to it than you are. I killed M that way once as a mage, taking advantage of a spiral vault where I could retreat around corners while the two chased me.
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Old May 4, 2018, 23:36   #47
Sphara
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One thing to remove is that hockey-stick targeting. It's not only overpowered, it is stupid as hell. It should be removed first thing before even thinking about dealing with the trap issue.

Hockey-stick targeting is close being the Angband equivalent to old nethack's Elbereth usage.
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Old May 5, 2018, 04:02   #48
mrfy
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Originally Posted by Sphara View Post
One thing to remove is that hockey-stick targeting. It's not only overpowered, it is stupid as hell. It should be removed first thing before even thinking about dealing with the trap issue.

Hockey-stick targeting is close being the Angband equivalent to old nethack's Elbereth usage.
Isn't this a case of changing the game to force a particular play style? Not all of us use hockey-stick targeting to kill monsters, and remember, the monsters can use it against @ too.
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Old May 5, 2018, 04:27   #49
Ingwe Ingweron
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Isn't this a case of changing the game to force a particular play style? Not all of us use hockey-stick targeting to kill monsters, and remember, the monsters can use it against @ too.
I agree!

In addition to the hockey-stick being mutual (many times I am flummoxed by an "s" or the unpronounceable "Q" when they can hockey-stick @), I also see it as a bit of compensation for monsters being able to fire off magic and breath at @ while the monster is utterly safe inside a wall.
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Old May 5, 2018, 05:40   #50
Sphara
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Isn't this a case of changing the game to force a particular play style? Not all of us use hockey-stick targeting to kill monsters, and remember, the monsters can use it against @ too.
It would force players not to use broken mechanic.

Monsters use it against player too? How? They do not act if they cannot see you but you can target some distant tile behind them and let the projectile hit them. Even if you cannot see them.

Being disagreed on this topic feels like I'm against the Warren Commisson. The mechanic is broken but you guys want to keep it that way?
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