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Old January 11, 2019, 20:38   #11
Sky
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...they are not really amazing if all you do is dispel them.
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Old January 11, 2019, 22:51   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huqhox View Post
Why do we have (essentially) one summon mechanic. Why not have more? This would make monsters more interesting and different as well as being useful from a thematic point of view.

So you could have some different ones like (names are pretty random)

Summon minions: Summons only lesser monsters which act like bodyguards
Summon assistance: As current summon, so may attract higher level monsters
Conjure monster: Summoned monsters (usually constructs etc) vanish when the summoner is killed
Call for help: Summons a monster but not adjacent to the summoner but somewhere else on the level, awake and heading for the position of the summoner. This one is really for Ringwraiths but could find other uses I'm sure
I like this line of thinking. There is already a (currently unused) different summon type of "calling monsters", where monsters are gathered from elsewhere on the level instead of being created new. I will be thinking seriously about how to implement some variant of these ideas.
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Old January 11, 2019, 22:59   #13
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Some additional ideas, just brainstorming here:

* Summon chaff: brings in a large number of weak enemies to get in the player's way.
* Summoning circle: places a glyph on the floor that, in a set amount of game time, will be replaced by a high-level summoned monster. The player may attempt to disarm the glyph.
* Swap places: the monster exchanges positions with another monster (possibly only one the monster can see?)
* Animate Rock: converts adjacent walls into earth elementals (Earth Spirit for magma/quartz?).

Where the conditions for the spell aren't met, the monster shouldn't try to cast it, e.g. not casting Swap Places if there's no valid target.
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Old January 12, 2019, 05:58   #14
Ingwe Ingweron
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Originally Posted by Nick View Post
I like this line of thinking. There is already a (currently unused) different summon type of "calling monsters", where monsters are gathered from elsewhere on the level instead of being created new. I will be thinking seriously about how to implement some variant of these ideas.
You might talk with Fizzix. I remember him doing a version where summons would only bring monsters that were already on the level.
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Old January 12, 2019, 05:58   #15
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Nick-
Bringing in a number of dungeon level generated monsters (or slightly above) is equivent to bringing in a bunch of monsters from elsewhere on the level. This should be the default against which you decide other mechanics. Don't over think it.
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Old January 12, 2019, 06:33   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingwe Ingweron View Post
You might talk with Fizzix. I remember him doing a version where summons would only bring monsters that were already on the level.
Precisely - this code is still in the codebase, unused.

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Originally Posted by Pete Mack View Post
Nick-
Bringing in a number of dungeon level generated monsters (or slightly above) is equivent to bringing in a bunch of monsters from elsewhere on the level. This should be the default against which you decide other mechanics. Don't over think it.
There are some potentially interesting cases - for example, a monster might call precisely the monsters that the player has already teleported away
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Old January 12, 2019, 08:23   #17
Thraalbee
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I like these ideas. Just dont go all in ending up with poscheng style oversummoning. I only fully enjoy the second half of those games with an [S amulet which is super rare.
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Old January 13, 2019, 12:34   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
Some additional ideas, just brainstorming here:

* Summon chaff: brings in a large number of weak enemies to get in the player's way.
* Summoning circle: places a glyph on the floor that, in a set amount of game time, will be replaced by a high-level summoned monster. The player may attempt to disarm the glyph.
* Swap places: the monster exchanges positions with another monster (possibly only one the monster can see?)
* Animate Rock: converts adjacent walls into earth elementals (Earth Spirit for magma/quartz?).

Where the conditions for the spell aren't met, the monster shouldn't try to cast it, e.g. not casting Swap Places if there's no valid target.
I like the sound of these too. I think there's a lot of interesting things that can be done with summoning which shouldn't change the balance but would make monsters more interesting
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