How to get rid of the no-selling option

[MattB]

Originally Posted by Mikko Lehtinen

BTW, Leon Marrick made another identification experiment in Sangband, too. Mushrooms can't be identified by Identify effects, they have to be eaten.

Oooh, I LIKE that!

[Timo Pietilä]

Originally Posted by Mikko Lehtinen

BTW, Leon Marrick made another identification experiment in Sangband, too. Mushrooms can't be identified by Identify effects, they have to be eaten.

This here is why no-selling can't be replaced by any other means. If you take something completely away, it is no longer a restriction.

Let me explain: In Moria there is no poison resist. Here people used to grind to get one, later it has been made so common that you no longer need to. What would happen if we would take poison resist away completely? There would no be any grinding for it even for slowest and most cautious players. It's like there is no resist for manastorm, so no-one even thinks they would need one. Introduce one and then you just created a need for it.

No selling is same. If you absolutely can't sell anything for money, you are free from lugging around stuff for money. It expands your freedom, it is not restriction, quite opposite. You find yourself using stuff you would just plain sell for money, and then if that thing is useless after using you can freely toss it away. If you find a great weapon that just happens to be teeny weeny bit worse than the one that you have right now, there is just no need to keep it. You suddenly have a lot of space in your inventory that can be used for just those "useless" items.

[Narvius]

Exactly what Timo says. I actually started using Confuse/Sleep/whatever wands since I began playing no-sell. I can comfortably lug around two thirds an inventory of potions and scrolls - without feeling like I'm missing out on sweet loot to sell. And, last, but certainly not least, I don't need to return to town all the time. The only times I return to town now are at level 11-17, to buy the remaining two books, when I get banged up so hard I need to restock, and whenever I get tired of constatly running away and need a breather. In the latter case, the trip turns from "I have to return to town -.-" to "Goddamnit finally, no nasty mass-summon demons every two steps "

[Antoine]

Narvius - I wasn't opposing no-sell! I was pointing out that it could be done without using an option slot.

A.

[Timo Pietilä]

Originally Posted by Antoine

Narvius - I wasn't opposing no-sell! I was pointing out that it could be done without using an option slot.

Not like you proposed. If you can still sell things for money, it is not no-selling game.

Only way I can see that it can be made without option is to use it as default and remove the other way of playing....well, there might be other way too: item sell value so low that there is no point selling anything. Obviously that would mean that items that you buy for 1gp you could not get anything, otherwise people at very low level might collect bolts to sell even when they are using a bow.

[dhegler]

Just a suggestion, why is it that once you know what a potion of CLW or a rod of disarming looks like, you can automatically identify it each time you see it? However, when you see your 30th weapon branded with cold, your character still has no idea what its power is?

Can't you suggest to auto-ID any previous branding or powers on weapons and armor, and id-by-use the +/- modifiers or the activations?

Identify as so tedious as it stands, and mass identify spells, staffs, rods, scrolls have not been implemented. It's frustrating to have to identify everything and then get your 50th leather armor of cold, looking for artifacts. You can even use this as an excuse to create a few more branding concepts for flavor.

I like Antoine's idea about gold though. It gives both options to a player, without having an option...

[debo]

Originally Posted by dhegler

Just a suggestion, why is it that once you know what a potion of CLW or a rod of disarming looks like, you can automatically identify it each time you see it? However, when you see your 30th weapon branded with cold, your character still has no idea what its power is?

I think this is what Timo means when he talks about "rune-based id".

[Timo Pietilä]

Originally Posted by debo

I think this is what Timo means when he talks about "rune-based id".

Correct. Once you know a property you recognize it from new items automatically.

[Mikko Lehtinen]

Originally Posted by Timo Pietilä

Correct. Once you know a property you recognize it from new items automatically.

It's a really good idea, especially if it also works on magical plusses and not only on brands and special abilities. v4 does this right, IIRC.

IMO items that have nothing extraordinary about them, like a dagger +0, should be identified automatically. How does rune-based id in v4 handle these?

Sorry Antoine for stealing your thread.

[Derakon]

I think the last state of v4 had it so that not all affixes had associated runes; in particular, the ones that just modified pluses (like "Sharpness") were runeless and thus couldn't be ID'd. We'd just about gotten around to agreeing that this should be changed when everyone got distracted by other projects, so I don't think it was ever implemented.