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Old December 17, 2009, 21:12   #1
Nightmarjoo
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Ironman help

Ironman strikes me as being really fun, the only attempts I made at it were in comp 75, which ended very quickly and disastrously. I've been considering trying it again, but everytime I do I end up dying thinking I'm invincible to orcs or something.

I'm mostly worried about playing ironman because I can't even consistently win angband without ironman. I've won with a warrior and a mage, they seem to be my best classes by far. I've tried a paladin and rogue without much success (much more relative success with rogue though). I think most of my mistakes are in attempting to fight monsters that I know very little about, having normally skipped them entirely.

So I suppose the first question is, should I play ironman?

Then, if yes, how do you play it? I've been trying to copy (very badly, I think) powerdiver's style of dive dive dive while killing choice targets and grabbing visible loot and potions, if I'm even doing this right, is this viable in ironman? The way I usually end up playing is diving to 1200' or so before getting scared and recalling home to convert my money into healing potions and a tele staff, then diving until I run out of healing and recalling again.
I'm worried about diving too fast, because if I understand how it works, if you hit 4900' really quickly and can't immediately go kill Sauron, you have to just stay on that level forever hoping good stuff spawns because you can't go up at all, right? With my current style off ironman, I'm usually hitting 4900' around level 33 (if I live that long), I take it that doesn't work?

The town in ironman goes something like, sell everything you've got (except spell book), get 1 clw, csw, and ccw if possible, get phase door, and go?

Are priests and paladins favoured in in ironman because they have permament and reliable sources of healing? Warriors last?

I've never played a priest before and have trouble with paladins too for some reason, any tips on using them?
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Old December 17, 2009, 21:42   #2
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I'm hoping for some help here also.

I'm also wondering if anyone has won ironman with something besides a priest or paladin. The lack of healing would be an extreme difficulty for the endgame I would think.

In town I would buy mb2 and mb3 (or pb2 and pb3) and forget about everything else. Some flasks of oil can be useful as well. As a ranger, I would even sell my bow.

The main questions I would add are. What range of levels do you dive through? When do you stop to fight? In the current game, I dove through levels 1-10 and 15-30. I stayed on 10-15 to get some basic loot, id by use some stuff, and get some basic equipment. I skipped 15-30 mostly because that is fire and acid hound territory. I was just making stuff up as I go, because like nightmarjoo, my only previous experience with ironman was Fingwind in the comp.

What consumables should you carry along with you? What's the plan for the last 80 levels? (where I'm at now)

edit: last 80 levels should be last 20 levels. dlevel 80-100

Last edited by fizzix; December 17, 2009 at 23:23.
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Old December 17, 2009, 23:13   #3
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Hm, first try: died at class level 4 on 200' trying to punch a black naga to death (warrior).

Second try, died to failing to disarm a pit trap that did a lot of damage, gonna try a rogue now.

Third try, died to a novice warrior at level one or two on 150'. This is getting discouraging quickly.

Fourth try, died to a battle scarred veteran.
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Last edited by Nightmarjoo; December 17, 2009 at 23:26.
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Old December 17, 2009, 23:36   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightmarjoo View Post
Fourth try, died to a battle scarred veteran.
These guys have really got it in for ironman characters. No idea why.
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Old December 18, 2009, 00:21   #5
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Fifth to a tiger.

I give up for now.
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Damned be those who use High Elves, for they are the race of the weak!
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Old December 18, 2009, 00:37   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightmarjoo View Post
Hm, first try: died at class level 4 on 200' trying to punch a black naga to death (warrior).

Second try, died to failing to disarm a pit trap that did a lot of damage, gonna try a rogue now.

Third try, died to a novice warrior at level one or two on 150'. This is getting discouraging quickly.

Fourth try, died to a battle scarred veteran.
It took me 53 tries to win an iron man game. I died to villagers along the way. most of my deaths were between dlev 20-30. You have to stick with it, especially early, as you will be breaking old habits and learning new skills, figuring out which monsters are more dangerous in an ironman context.

i think warriors are the hardest ironman character because of their reliance on melee. Stat drain quickly becomes deadly in ironman...
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Old December 18, 2009, 01:38   #7
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First off, you need a source of remove curse. A scroll or PB2 is necessary.

STR drain is a real problem. My first ironman winner ever scummed the town for an entire day to get money for a potion of restore strength and other whatnot. I couldn't survive without one.

Now I rely on teleport self, by which I also mean portal. The biggest weakness with rogues and rangers is the mana and failure rate on teleport self. Priests rule.

You should try to clear levels, but don't be overly dogmatic about it. Better to descend than to get a spell book burnt.

I think most people underestimate how many monsters I kill. You need to collect stuff on the way down. You need to seek out the monsters you are capable of killing, particularly if you have an advantage like a rod of light beams vs snagas e.g. If you don't maintain CL >= DL/2 most of the way down to DL 60, you are probably not killing enough.

Adapt to your deaths. If you repeatedly die to drained str, play a half-troll. If it is blindness, play a dwarf. If it is invis, play a high-elf. Don't worry too much about spellstat unless you play a pure caster. Dwarves make fine rogues. High elves are fine paladins.

I think the easiest class ought to be a paladin, except an expert with priests should do best with a priest. I cannot keep ironman mages alive, though that may be because despite what I suggested above, I usually can't make myself clear levels any more. I have not even tried with a warrior because it appears so hopeless.
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Old December 18, 2009, 09:52   #8
Timo Pietilš
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerDiver View Post
I think the easiest class ought to be a paladin, except an expert with priests should do best with a priest. I cannot keep ironman mages alive, though that may be because despite what I suggested above, I usually can't make myself clear levels any more. I have not even tried with a warrior because it appears so hopeless.
Warrior is actually one of the easiest, once you get past problems with food and detection. They are so much better with fighting and achieve levels so fast that almost nothing beats them late into game.
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Old December 18, 2009, 18:21   #9
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Warrior is actually one of the easiest, once you get past problems with food and detection. They are so much better with fighting and achieve levels so fast that almost nothing beats them late into game.
I'll have to give a try then. I am so used to being underpowerd and relying on escapes that I can't even imagine playing without a teleport spell. It will be fun to get back to the single-mindedness of warrior play.
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