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Old November 10, 2014, 01:55   #61
Roguer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nivim View Post
I played several more characters than I put on the ladder, but they maintained the same theme; all either dying to the interface because I couldn't figure something out, or dying to some big and tedious obstacle like a water-themed floor (which may also count as an interface, or perhaps display death; I couldn't figure out which of many options would help me not drown, and how many of them I needed).
So, despite what I've put into it so far, I have given up on this comp; losing by measures of score and determination, winning by measures of sanity and expediency.

Maybe another time, when those guys can work out the conflict between real-time play and a system built up and designed to be turn-based.
From your character dumps it seems that none of your characters was actually high enough to remotely get into the region where a water-themed floor could occur, so I assume you are referring to a simple river or maybe you just made it up. And I'm not sure you keeping forgetting to save the hotkeys you configured is exactly an interface issue either.
Actually I don't think the system will ever get improved in terms of dealing with whiny attitude and blaming self-inflicted problems on others. I'll admit that the game is relatively hard and unforviging though, which is a reason why I actually play it and find it so much fun.

Last edited by Roguer; November 10, 2014 at 03:57.
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Old November 10, 2014, 04:12   #62
murphy
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The real time aspect makes it very different from the other *bands; there is still the strategy element, but it also demands quick reaction and precise keystrokes, kind of like a video game. Mastering macros seems essential to survival, and its worth poring over the macro details and examples in the guide. After a few days, I'm still struggling, but I've found it pretty enjoyable
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Old November 10, 2014, 05:01   #63
debo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roguer View Post
From your character dumps it seems that none of your characters was actually high enough to remotely get into the region where a water-themed floor could occur, so I assume you are referring to a simple river or maybe you just made it up. And I'm not sure you keeping forgetting to save the hotkeys you configured is exactly an interface issue either.
Actually I don't think the system will ever get improved in terms of dealing with whiny attitude and blaming self-inflicted problems on others. I'll admit that the game is relatively hard and unforviging though, which is a reason why I actually play it and find it so much fun.
Pretty sure he wasn't whining or attacking anything.

The interface is nuts; the fact that people like us are just nuts enough to be willing to play it doesn't mean it's a good idea.
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Old November 10, 2014, 12:34   #64
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Originally Posted by debo View Post
Pretty sure he wasn't whining or attacking anything.

The interface is nuts; the fact that people like us are just nuts enough to be willing to play it doesn't mean it's a good idea.
Believe me, he was. I saw him in the game. His attitude was rarely constructive but usually annoying like "oh why isn't this aspect XY like it SHOULD be in a normal, GOOD game" and "Oh I died but that was just because the game is so broken and noone cares", etc. Mind you these weren't the exact words, although the first sentence was almost the same wording iirc. I'm just describing the underlying scheme. When you read this kind of talk in many of someone's chat lines you don't really feel like helping him out anymore, even if you think he's just misunderstanding some feature of the game, maybe you can understand that.
However, he also reacted postively when an admin responded to his inquiry, so I thought he'd calm down and get to know the game a bit more. It's a pity to give up this early, because you'll miss out on a lot.
Some 'problems' might be misunderstood though and are actually features required for real-time multiplayer aspect. For example if you take a long time in a town store while other players are waiting at the door, at some point the shopkeeper will kick you out. A new player might not understand what the heck is going on, but there is not really a problem here that needs fixing or anything.
However, if you have any suggestions about the interface, you could use /rfe command in game (request for enhancement) or write to the forum.
It's also a good idea to ask in general chat in-game (without implying how the developers suck) about interface elements you're wondering about. There are picky players who got *really* far in the game and who still think the interface is fine, so chances are there might be some misunderstanding. The admins are usually pretty responsive though, so maybe your suggestion gets implemented right away.

Yeah, it's true that macros (hotkeys) are vital and therefore an 'action' element enters the gameplay.
However, it's not needed to dive too deep into macro syntax in the beginning, as you can just use the macro wizard by pressing % to enter the macro menu and then z to start the wizard. Should make creating macros fairly easy. If you still are unsure about stuff, just ask in chat. Players will be willing to take their time to help you out in every situation.

The game also has an irc channel btw, #tomenet on irc.freenode.net. It relays chat between game and channel, so you can chat with players online. Certain game messages such as deaths are also relayed.

Last edited by Roguer; November 10, 2014 at 14:24.
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Old November 10, 2014, 13:24   #65
Arjen
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What doesn't help it trying to learn a new game with one of the hardest classes tomenet has. I've seen countless forumposts in several threads about starting with a half troll warrior. For those really new to Tomenet.


*** Start as a powerful race warrior/mimic/druid. ***

You have way less keystrokes (you auto attack with melee) and macros at the start so you can actually have more time learning to play with real-time. Ofcourse you can start with a weak class like mage/runemaster who are really hard at the start, but don't expect to live a long life. The RNG eats low lvls for breakfast.
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Old November 10, 2014, 15:38   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roguer View Post
From your character dumps it seems that none of your characters was actually high enough to remotely get into the region where a water-themed floor could occur, so I assume you are referring to a simple river or maybe you just made it up.
Here ya go:
Code:
  [TomeNET 4.5.8 @ europe.tomenet.net Character Dump]

 Name        : Logrus           Age                 12       Str:     13     14
 Sex         : Female           Height              61       INT:     18
 Race        : Kobold           Weight             117       WIS:      8
 Class       : Runemaster       Social Class         1       DEX:     20
 Body        : Player                                        CON:     13
                                                             CHR:      5
 Mode        : Unworldly (one life)

 +To MHit           13      Level             21    Hit Points       -4/ 171
 +To MDamage         5      Experience      5610    MP (Mana)        39/  75
 +To RHit            6      Max Exp         5610    Sanity             Sound
 +To RDamage        15      Exp to Adv.     6800
 Total AC            9      Gold           10468    Status              DEAD

 Fighting    : Very Good    Perception  : Superb       Blows/Round:  1
 Bows/Throw  : Good         Searching   : Very Good    Shots/Round:  1
 Saving Throw: Excellent    Disarming   : Good
 Stealth     : Superb       Magic Device: Fair         Infra-Vision: 50 feet

 You are at -700 ft of world map sector 30,34.


          You are the runt of a litter of 5 pups. Your father was a
          warrior, and your mother was a cook. You have brown eyes,
          an olive green hide, and small, sharp teeth.


  [Skill Chart]

Skills (points left: 5)
 - Combat                                         00.000 [1.000]
         - Sword-mastery                          00.000 [0.900]
             . Critical-strike                    00.000 [0.400]
         . Axe-mastery                            00.000 [0.800]
         . Blunt-mastery                          00.000 [0.800]
         . Polearm-mastery                        00.000 [0.800]
     . Interception                               00.000 [1.000]
     . Boomerang-mastery                          00.000 [0.800]
 - Magic                                          13.350 [1.000]
         . Light                                  16.000 [1.000]
         . Darkness                               01.000 [1.000]
         . Nexus                                  22.000 [1.000]
         . Nether                                 00.000 [1.000]
         . Chaos                                  15.000 [1.000]
         . Mana                                   15.000 [1.000]
 - Necromancy                                     02.400 [1.000]
     . Traumaturgy                                12.000 [1.000]
     . Aura of Fear                               00.000 [1.000]
     . Shivering Aura                             00.000 [1.000]
     . Aura of Death                              00.000 [1.000]
 - Sneakiness                                     01.000 [0.630]
     . Stealth                                    01.000 [0.600]
     . Stealing                                   00.000 [0.700]
     . Backstabbing                               00.000 [0.700]
     . Dodging                                    00.000 [0.700]
     . Calmness                                   00.000 [1.000]
 - Health                                         04.500 [1.000]
     . Swimming                                   00.000 [0.070]
     . Climbing                                   00.000 [0.040]
     . Digging                                    23.400 [1.600]


  [Character Equipment]

a) a Dagger {+,6} (1d4) (+4,+5) {Bullroarer the Hobbit}
b) Small Leather Shield {+,?}[15%]{good-Wormtongue, Agent of Saruman}
c) The Short Bow of Amrod {+,15} (x3) (+12,+15) (+2) {Smeagol}
d) a Spikard Ring of Stealth {+,2} (+5) {Smeagol}
e) an Adamantite Ring of Searching {+,2} (+1) {searching}
f) a Talisman {+,2} (+4 to luck)
g) a Brass Lantern {+,1} (with 11900 turns of light)
h) (body armour)
i) (cloak)
j) a Hard Leather Cap {+,1} [2,+0]
k) a Set of Gauntlets {+,?} [2]
l) a Pair of Hard Leather Boots {+,1} [3,+0]
m) (quiver)
n) a Pick {+,0} (1d3) (+0,+0) (+1)


  [Character Inventory]

a) 4 Flasks of Oil {+,0}
b) 5 Red Speckled Potions of Cure Light Wounds {+,1} {25% off}
c) an Orange Potion of Cure Serious Wounds {+,1} {10% off}
d) a Scroll "an ornab mebul" of Phase Door {+,1} {on sale}
e) an Aluminium Rod {+,?} {good}
f) a Mithril-Plated Wand of Light {+,1} (2 charges)
g) a Walnut Staff of Treasure Location {+,1} (14 charges)
h) a Rosewood Staff of Cure Serious Wounds {+,1} (8 charges)
i) a Runed Staff {+,?} {good-detect traps}
j) a Banyan Staff {+,?} {good}
k) 2 Topaz Rings of Fire Resistance {+,2} {on sale}
l) an Emerald Ring of Cold Resistance {+,3}
m) 2 Bloodstone Rings of Sustain Brilliance {+,3}
n) a Moonstone Ring of Sustain Steadiness {+,3}
o) a Turquoise Ring {+,?}
p) a Fluorspar Ring {+,?}
q) a Golden Amulet of Slow Digestion {+,2}
r) a Bronze Amulet of Acid Resistance {+,2}
s) a Jade Amulet {+,?}
t) a Meerschaum Amulet {+,?}


  [Last Messages]


The Mongbat flees in terror!
It dies from 22 damage.
You clumsily trace a minimized cloud of inertia.
You faint from the lack of food.
You are paralyzed!
You're drowning! (x2)
You can move again.
You're drowning! (x2)
[(P) Pebbles] sound also has the benefit of not cutting you or destroying
              potions if you fail, plus the only thing you will probably run
              accross that resists it before 20 is gold d's
You see a Picklock {3} (+3).
You faint from the lack of food.
You are paralyzed!
You can move again.
You're drowning! (x2)
You cannot run in that direction.
You faint from the lack of food.
You are paralyzed!
You cannot run in that direction.
You can move again.
You see a Trident {?} (2d7).
You faint from the lack of food.
You are paralyzed!
You can move again.
You faint from the lack of food.
You are paralyzed!
You can move again.
[(P) Pebbles] and it can stun enemies
You cannot run in that direction. (x2)
Pebbles has returned from AFK.
You faint from the lack of food.
You are paralyzed!
You can move again.
You faint from the lack of food.
You are paralyzed!
You're drowning!
You can move again.
You faint from the lack of food.
You are paralyzed!
You can move again.
[Pebbles took a staircase downwards to -300ft..]
Logrus reached floor 14 in the Ironman Deep Dive challenge!
You die.
**You have been killed by starvation.**
It didn't look so tough.


  [Surroundings]

Kobold
Runemaster
T.Hunter
LEVEL     21
XP     -1190
AU     10468
      }
[++++------]
Str:      13
INT:      18
WIS:       8
DEX:      20
CON:      13
CHR:       5                                         ~~~~                    ~#
SN:    Sound                                        ~~~~~~                  ~~~
AC:        9                                       ~~~~~~~~                #~~~
HP:  -4/ 171                                      ~~~~~~~~~~              ~#~~~
MP:  39/  75                                     ~~~~~~~~~~~~            ~~~~~~
ST:  10/  10                                    ~~~~~~~~"~~~~~          ~~~~~~~
                                               ~~~~~~~  ~~~~~~~        ~~~~~~~
[----------]                                  ~~~~~~~    ~~~~~~~      ~~~~~~~
                                             #~~~~~~      ~~~~~~~    ##~~~~~
                                          ##~~~~~~~        ~~~~~~   ~~~~~~~
                                         ##/~~~++~          ~~~~#  ~~~~~~~
                                        ##~~~`##           ~~~~###~~~~~~~~~~~##
                                       ##~~~~~...#         ~~~~  ~~~~~`~~~~~
                                 #######~~~~~....###       ~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~
                                ~~~~~~~~~~~........##    ~~~~~~~~~#~~~~~~#####~
                                ~~~~~~~~~~~.........######~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~#  ~~
                                ~~~~#~~~~~...........##   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~##
                                 #######.............#'   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~#
                                      #......!~__\....'  ##~##~~~~~~~~~~~#
                                     ##......"_="")...###
                                     #.......!_-==.....#
                                     ##......-=="-$...##
                   ########~~~%       #......]=]".....#
                  ##~#~#~#~~~~#     ####......]......##
             ######~~~~~~~~~~~##%%%#%  ..............#
                  [#[#.#.#.#~~.        .#...........##
                  .[.......~~~.        %##.........##
             #######.#.#.#.~~~####%%#%#  ###.....###
                   ########~~~#            ###[###
                                             ###

Weak                                                          1 BpR   -700ft *


  [Unique Monsters]

You have assisted in slaying Freesia.
You have slain Grip, Farmer Maggot's dog.
You have slain Wolf, Farmer Maggot's dog.
You have assisted in slaying Fang, Farmer Maggot's dog.
You have slain Smeagol.
You have assisted in slaying Bullroarer the Hobbit.
You have slain The disembodied hand that strangled people.
You have slain Mughash, the Kobold Lord.
You have slain Vort the Kobold Queen.
You have slain Lagduf, the Snaga.
You have slain Wormtongue, Agent of Saruman.
You have slain The Borshin.
You have slain Orfax, Son of Boldor.
(Is there a spoiler or something I can put this in? It's gargantuan in the preview.)
Edit: Looking at it; this isn't the floor that bothered me so much, it was the water floor before it that had me complete stuck for a while.


Anyway, Roguer, I can't remember anything I said anywhere around tomenet I'd like to apologize for and didn't, but I'm going to apologize to you because I never intended anything to be annoying or to cut/hurt. Sorry.

If you like, I'll do a detail post about your posts, trying to explain each thing, but I also don't really want to write it if you don't want to read it...although, one thing that hooked my thought;
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roguer
It's a pity to give up this early, because you'll miss out on a lot.
I also lost in terms of patience; there are other games, like the openmw I installed yesterday and PosChengband.

Last edited by Nivim; November 10, 2014 at 15:45.
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Old November 10, 2014, 16:00   #67
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@Nivim
Yeah that's "just" a normal level that actually has rivers going through it. This can happen and I guess it can be difficult for newbies. It's actually not that bad when you get used to it. Fortunately it doesn't happen often. The game has nasty challenges that can pop up now and then and you won't be able to handle everything easily without any experience at all. For example this watery level would've been easily shrugged off by a more experienced player. What I mean to say is, if you seek a challenge and a gameplay that in the long run really rewards your skill and experience, then by all means keep going and don't give up just because you encountered a situation that you couldn't easily solve.
And as Arjen said, Adventurer, Istar, Runemaster, Shaman and Priest are the hardest classes to start with. So you really had it coming. :-p
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Old November 10, 2014, 23:24   #68
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Having such reactions like desperation and frustrated for gaming. Isnt that eventually good thing? In subconscious level, everybody is looking for challenge for the mind. Just conscious level cannot accept defeat so easily and often.
There is very good advice already told. Trying powerful early- and midgame classes. Archer havent been mentioned, but it is one of those.
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Old November 11, 2014, 20:21   #69
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Good mornin all, just thought i'd post my favorite build to get from 1-20 in IDDC it's as a fruit bat that is just a lot of fun to play, and actually quite powerful.

I thought it might be entertaining for new players to see what the game is like playing with some actual speed. Getting speed in IDDC will be really rare. Plus Mindcrafters are a blast.

When you create your Character you have the option to choose fruit bat or normal.

Fruit bats cannot equip weapons, body armour, boots or gloves. They do however start at +10 speed and have slightly Vampiric attacks (leach some health on attack) and get a pretty large bonus to dodging.

So we are creating a Draconian Chaos Lineage Mindcrafter, max intelligence put 14 or 15 into str and con and the rest into dex. Martial artists get extra blows by leveling the Martial Arts skill regardless of Str or dex score (although they do more damage with high strength) Chaos gets 2 high resists (Chaos and disenchantment), and short range telepathy. You can choose others but i recommend this one, i'ts a lot more difficult finding high resists as a bat.

This build will start with +10 speed, telepathy starting at level 6, great stealth by level 15, teleport and phase door spells, detection magic, a nice magic mapping type skill,Identify, a good melee attack, be able to fly (so trees and water are no problem) an absolutely amazing ranged attack with psionic blast, and a couple of others spells for creatures that resist mind attacks.

Buy your normal supplies and a psionic blast scroll (your main ranged attack, it absolutely destroy's casters and Dragons) Buy lots of satisfy hunger scrolls Draconians need to eat a lot. I usually get 16-20. The first level might take a bit of hit and run tactics because of your bad damage, but once you start leveling martial arts your set.

So from 1-15

skill spent total
SKILL_STEALTH 16.400
SKILL_MARTIAL_ARTS 17.500
SKILL_PPOWER 18.000
SKILL_MINTRUSION 17.500
Available spells (spell level):


By now your stealth will be great, and you can start maxing the rest of your magic Schools, then magic so you have lots of mana.

At 50 build would look like-

skill spent total
SKILL_MAGIC 52 50.000
SKILL_STEALTH 22 16.400
SKILL_MARTIAL_ARTS 72 50.000
SKILL_PPOWER 34 50.000
SKILL_TCONTACT 31 50.000
SKILL_MINTRUSION 33 50.000
Available spells (spell level):


Now past dungeon level 20, getting resists will be difficult but if you get lucky or have the cash to buy a crown with base or a resistance amulet you will be good to go.

Anyways, just thought i'd put this out there. Cheers

Last edited by UglySquirrell; November 11, 2014 at 20:42.
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Old November 12, 2014, 10:59   #70
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People tend to recommend half troll warriors for an easy start, but in IDDC your warrior will be quickly obliterated by those AI-annoy monsters. For an easy and completely mindless start, I recommend a fruit bat dodger. The only restriction of fruit bats is that they can only wear a few items: rings, amulet, light source, cloak and headgear. So you'll have to pick up what to wear really carefully.

For race, Draconian is the way to go. Since you don't want your bat to get into trouble, but mostly pick your fights and "sneak" behind monsters, you definitely want that ESP radius you get from your race. Pick either chaos or multihued lineage (I recommend the latter, since base resistance will be hard to get outside the body armor slot). For class, two options: warrior or rogue. The latter is probably easier, but you get less hps. For skills, maximize martial arts, dodging and sneakiness. Then stealth up to the point you get "golden" Legendary stealth. Then rest into interception (you will get more points to spend there as a rogue, since it will be faster to maximize stealth).

Dodgers will "avoid" many melee attacks, and most of all they will avoid those annoying bolts (DEWs mana bolts come to mind here) and missiles, making the combo really working even without a ranged attack. The first 2000ft will be a cakewalk as you will probably outspeed everything you meet and simply ignore the rest. Just take your time at 1000ft and 2000ft to stock on supplies. Use your ring slots for resists (nexus and sound probably), buy a shadow cloak of protection in the general store (three high resists) and a brass lantern of the eternal eye (or magi if you're lucky to find one that has invisibility). Amulet and head slots are harder to fill with something useful at that point. Then simply dive and try to go as deep as you can!
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