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Old September 6, 2013, 21:04   #11
DaviddesJ
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I don't think we're really communicating well. With ESP on, there are several cases:

1. A displayed enemy that you can see and you have known LOS to.
2. A displayed enemy that you can't see but you have known LOS to.
3. A displayed enemy that you can't see and you have uncertain LOS to.
4. A displayed enemy that you can't see and you have blocked LOS to.

The targeting code could cycle by default only among group 1, or among groups 1+2, or groups 1+2+3. It seems rather strange for it to include group 4. If you want to include group 4, or anything that's not in the "default" targeting set, then you could have a separate keystroke for that. I don't think anyone thinks all displayed monsters, including group 4, should be in default targeting, right?
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Old September 6, 2013, 21:16   #12
Derakon
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No, we can agree there. I thought you were suggesting that group 3 be excluded as well, which is what I was objecting to.
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Old September 6, 2013, 23:24   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
No, we can agree there. I thought you were suggesting that group 3 be excluded as well, which is what I was objecting to.
My impression was that the original complaint was about monsters in group 4 being automatically targeted. It might take some extra code to target monsters in group 3 but not in group 4, I wouldn't object to that being put in.
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Old September 6, 2013, 23:30   #14
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Yeah, our entire tangent was caused by me speculating that group 4 was being included due to a bug in trying to exclude group 3.

I'll know better than to speculate, next time.
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Old September 6, 2013, 23:57   #15
DaviddesJ
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If people can agree on exactly what they want to happen, it probably wouldn't be that hard to write the code. The hard part is figuring out what you want.
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Old September 7, 2013, 00:27   #16
bio_hazard
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If you have telepathy, does that not imply you would know from the monster's POV whether YOU are in LOS of it? Seems reasonable to me to use that information in cases when LOS can not be determined due to unknown terrain between @ and monster.
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Old September 7, 2013, 00:36   #17
DaviddesJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bio_hazard View Post
If you have telepathy, does that not imply you would know from the monster's POV whether YOU are in LOS of it?
I don't think telepathy implies the power to know everything that every monster near you knows. That would let you see walls near their locations, other (non-sentient) monsters near them, items near them, traps, etc., etc.
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Old September 7, 2013, 04:07   #18
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I think the problem here isn't what monsters are targeted, it is the order of targetting.

At the moment (if I read the original report right) is seems to be whichever is closest of

Quote:
1. A displayed enemy that you can see and you have known LOS to.
2. A displayed enemy that you can't see but you have known LOS to.
3. A displayed enemy that you can't see and you have uncertain LOS to.
4. A displayed enemy that you can't see and you have blocked LOS to.
wheras what it really needs to be is

1 if available, else 2 if available, else 3 if available else 4.

Maybe with 1 and 2 merged?
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Old September 7, 2013, 04:46   #19
Ingwe Ingweron
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It seems to me that case 4 should never be targetable. Isn't that the situation causing the confusion cited in the initial report, where targeting is trying to lock on to monsters that you are aware of through ESP but that you know are behind walls, blocked LOS?
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Old September 7, 2013, 06:15   #20
DaviddesJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaypy View Post
I think the problem here isn't what monsters are targeted, it is the order of targetting.

At the moment (if I read the original report right) is seems to be whichever is closest of



wheras what it really needs to be is

1 if available, else 2 if available, else 3 if available else 4.

Maybe with 1 and 2 merged?
I think that would be pretty confusing. I'm not saying it's not possible to implement, or that it couldn't be useful, but a lot of people who haven't read this thread would be surprised and confused by that behavior. Generally it's better to have a system that you don't have to explain to people, because it just behaves in a way that's easy to understand. Closest to furthest does that.
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