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Old September 19, 2009, 09:47   #1
Nightmarjoo
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Why do gloves that give +int feel uncomfortable for a mage?

Well, my title sums it up. I found a pair of random artifact gloves that give +2 int (no free_act, no dex) and they feel uncomfortable. The bonus from +2 int at this point appears greater than the loss uncomfortable for spellcasting gives though. Seems to me though that they shouldn't be uncomfortable in the first place. What about gloves that give +dex or give free_act makes them more comfortable than every other pair of gloves?
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Old September 19, 2009, 10:19   #2
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The viewpoint proposed in rgra is that dex and FA gloves are more supple and flexible. It never made sense to me, but I pushed and pushed in multiple discussions and that was the accepted viewpoint.

Such a thing should make FA immediately obvious on wielded boots and body armor as well, but it doesn't. I wonder if an adamantite ring of FA ought to be flexible ...

IMO gloves ought to be OK, and gauntlets and cesti should cause the mana reduction no matter what resists they provide, but no one ever agrees with me on these things.
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Old September 19, 2009, 15:37   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerDiver View Post
The viewpoint proposed in rgra is that dex and FA gloves are more supple and flexible. It never made sense to me, but I pushed and pushed in multiple discussions and that was the accepted viewpoint.

Such a thing should make FA immediately obvious on wielded boots and body armor as well, but it doesn't. I wonder if an adamantite ring of FA ought to be flexible ...

IMO gloves ought to be OK, and gauntlets and cesti should cause the mana reduction no matter what resists they provide, but no one ever agrees with me on these things.
I agree with you here. Not on the cesti though. They usually just cover the wrists and forearms, not the fingers. So they wouldn't really impede whatever actions that mages need to do. You can imagine a well designed cestus that doesn't hamper hand motion at all.

free-action != non-impeded hand motion. I always found that one confusing.
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Old September 19, 2009, 18:11   #4
Marble Dice
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PowerDiver's suggestion does make sense from a role playing standpoint, and it certainly feels less arbitrary than "the gloves must have one of these two bonuses, but those bonuses on other items won't let you wear gloves that don't have them". I think I like it from a gameplay standpoint too - currently priests have a limited selection for one equipment slot, while mages just lose a slot for the first part of the game, and later have a limited selection.

Such a change would mean mages could no longer use the following standarts without penalty:

The Set of Gauntlets of Eol (-5,-5) [3,+14] (+3)
The Set of Gauntlets 'Camlost' (-12,-12) [3,+0] (-3)
The Set of Caestus of Fingolfin (+10,+10) [5,+20] (+4)

But then would be able to use the following artifacts without penalty:

The Set of Leather Gloves 'Cambeleg' (+8,+8) [1,+15] (+2)
The Set of Leather Gloves 'Cammithrim' [1,+10]

I think I'd be fine with that trade off.
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Old September 19, 2009, 19:15   #5
PowerDiver
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One more thing. Takkaria accepted my suggestion that "alchemist's gloves" should not give a mage penalty some time back.

On the bug tracker:

Add/Change #762 (Alchemist's Gloves should be wearable by mages)

is listed as fixed.
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Old September 19, 2009, 23:28   #6
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Eol are designed for mages, though. Nobody except an arcane spellcaster is likely to want a set of gauntlets that reduce accuracy and damage while increasing intelligence. That's not an acceptable tradeoff.
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Old September 20, 2009, 01:39   #7
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Frankly, aside from a nod to D&D, I'm not sure what good it does to restrict what handgear mages can wear at all. If anything, getting a pair of gloves of power/slaying early on will teach a mage that even with them, s/he still is not a competent fighter.

Later in the game, it's largely moot anyway, so no harm done.
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Old September 21, 2009, 16:04   #8
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Call the RNG. Let any set of gloves have a low % chance of not interfering with your spell casting ability. Of course, you would have to try them on to see how they feel.

...and let me reitterate that weapons of slay undead should be unpenalized for priests.
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Old September 23, 2009, 00:00   #9
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Perhaps you should make the impediment a function of the int increase. For unusually 'smart' gloves (maybe +4 or higher) you can ignore the loss - for less, you'll have to deal with it. Or you can even adjust the percentage based on the bonus itself. I'm sure that's complicated... but it might make mages' lives a bit easier.
I suppose the story is different for mages, but from my perspective (rogue) wearing gloves was never such a big problem. I could use the AC in the beginning, and now I have gloves of power (1,4) (+5) to make up quite utterly for the loss of maybe 100 SP.
However, it's probably different for a mage. 100SP is a lot, isn't it? (Not for a rogue. I hardly even use magic now that nearly everything seems to resist stinking cloud.)
Anyway, that's the only suggestion I can make. I must ask at this point, however: who thought of the Cumber_Glove flag anyway? I mean, it makes sense from a flavor standpoint, but don't the mages need the AC more badly than anyone else? (Maybe that's the point: you have to choose between a bit more AC or some more SP. The choice is pretty clear for a mage.)
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Old September 27, 2009, 07:47   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzkill View Post
Call the RNG. Let any set of gloves have a low % chance of not interfering with your spell casting ability. Of course, you would have to try them on to see how they feel..
That is already in the game. They are called "alchemist's gloves". You don't have to try them on though.
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