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Old January 17, 2018, 14:57   #251
PowerWyrm
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IMO:

- Minor Healing should be adjusted to something like "10+clvl or clvl*0.7%" to give a mix of CCW and Heal at high level (60, 35%)
- Light of Manwe comes too late, it should be a spell useful vs Nazguls (in PWMAngband, the equivalent spell -- Sunfire -- is base level 28)
- Spear of Orome should be the ultimate spell for Priests (similar to what Annihilation was for the old class) and do much more damage (Annihilation was doing 200 and nobody was ever using it, so a spell doing 25d8...)
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Old January 17, 2018, 17:09   #252
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How many druid books are there ?

Edit: I looked it up, there are 5.

Last edited by Estie; January 17, 2018 at 17:48.
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Old January 17, 2018, 19:33   #253
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Completed a druid laythrough; observations:

First off, I never found book 5; from what I gather, it contains mostly spell damage. Thats fine though since I was mostly interested in how the shapeshifting got implemented.

There are many phases in a druids life where his playstyle changes; I like that very much. Start with melee, switch to stinking cloud, then there is a long long stage where I played him like a bookless mage - melee and archery, supported by the occasional cloud and detect life/sense surrounding. The problem is that both lightning strike and earth rising destroy loot, so they never become mainstay spells (and dont get a macro); I really quit using them when I saw lightning strike destroy some of the drops of a unique with the killing blow. Stinking cloud is too weak after a while and fox form isnt exactly boosting killing power while pukelman is late and in the beginning, more detrimental than helpful - so the vast majority of fights was mage melee.

Book 3 has not a single spell I consider useful, I carried it all the way but only because this was a test run. Normally it would get squelched.
I tried to alter a storm giant a couple times because, while he was an easy fight at the time, he likes to destroy wands, but after 4 consecutives failings at changing his shape I gave up. Not sure how random polymorph can be made into something worthwhile, but a polymorph that doesnt work sure isnt going to take up inventory space.
Mass sleep/confusion ? Well, if I am in LOS of mass and things are awake, I probaly want to gtfo and not take risks by attempting to sleep, which is probably going to affect the lowlevels I dont care about and not affect the dangerous things in the room. I dont know if that has been changed, but casting sleep could actually wake up already sleeping monsters.

Eventually @ grew enough to be able to cast spells from book 4, and that one is an entirely different matter. All spells are excellent, with the possible exception of pukelman. The loss of speed is likely going to be a dealbreaker before +10 base speed; and casting both haste and transformation doesnt really work when the manapool is low and the failrates are high. Just haste self without pukelman is superior. Also, shouldnt the shape between the fox and the bear be a wolf ?

When bearform became useable I started swiping all the lategame uniques. It is a nice combat boost, but really barely worth the hassle of transforming. An idea: replace the healing spell with a heal over time, something like 50hp/round for 10 rounds or so, to be cast before transformation.

The druid I played definitely feels like a hybrid, not a caster. To maximize shapeshifted forms, you have to gear like a warrior; high wisdom just reduces the fail rate of shifting, and that isnt a problem as it is a buff used before combat under controlled circumstances.

To be a real caster, there would have to be some boost to the combat form from at least high wisdom, it not a spell power stat similar to tome2.
A simple fix would be to give the shifted forms the hybrid attack table, for a more appropriate damage output and a needed extra incentive for shifting. Then a druid who uses forms is a hybrid, while one that utilizes the elusive book 5 would be a caster.

Kudos for implementing the shifting in a way that doesnt use game time; if it had consumed a turn to change form, the whole concept would not have been viable.

It feels a bit weird to run over items and not get the usual messages; can that be changed ?

Thats all I recall for now, I might add to this if I remember more. All in all, it was a fun playthrough, even with that grindy part in the midgame.
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Old January 17, 2018, 21:09   #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Estie View Post
Completed a druid playthrough
Thanks so much for that - it's really helpful. I think right away I'll increase the commonness of the 5th book (and that goes for mages and priests as well) and rethink all the 3rd book spells and pukelman form, then I'll start thinking about the hybrid/caster issues.
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Old January 17, 2018, 21:36   #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerWyrm View Post
Minor Healing should be adjusted to something like "10+clvl or clvl*0.7%" to give a mix of CCW and Heal at high level (60, 35%)
Yes, that looks better - I was having trouble finding the balance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerWyrm View Post
- Light of Manwe comes too late, it should be a spell useful vs Nazguls (in PWMAngband, the equivalent spell -- Sunfire -- is base level 28)
I was thinking of it more as comparable to Mana Storm, but I wanted mages still to have the more powerful spells - but I think I've made it too weak. Maybe level*5?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerWyrm View Post
- Spear of Orome should be the ultimate spell for Priests (similar to what Annihilation was for the old class) and do much more damage (Annihilation was doing 200 and nobody was ever using it, so a spell doing 25d8...)
It is a beam (the idea being priests don't really get powerful single target spells); what do you think, doubling the damage be too much?
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Old January 17, 2018, 21:47   #256
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wth, how does this stupid spell work, i can't targ...ooh

ok, *maybe* the AOE that targets every mob in sight is just so slightly overpowered.
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Old January 17, 2018, 22:08   #257
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You mean like Staves of Dispel Evil?
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Old January 18, 2018, 09:16   #258
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yes like a infinite-charges staff of dispel evil.
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Old January 18, 2018, 09:35   #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Estie View Post
How many druid books are there ?

Edit: I looked it up, there are 5.
You won't be able to find book #5 because it conflicts with the Priest 5th book "Wrath of the Valar". To fix that, edit class.txt and change:

book:nature book:dungeon:[Wrath of the Valar]:5:divine

to:

book: prayer book:dungeon:[Wrath of the Valar]:5:divine
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Old January 18, 2018, 10:35   #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick View Post
I was thinking of it more as comparable to Mana Storm, but I wanted mages still to have the more powerful spells - but I think I've made it too weak. Maybe level*5?

It is a beam (the idea being priests don't really get powerful single target spells); what do you think, doubling the damage be too much?
Ok, so Light of Manwe is the best spell. In that case yes, it should be more powerful -- clvl*5 works fine. But it should also be available earlier to benefit from the "light" effect, so why not make it level 30 with "weak light" and become "strong light" at level 40?

The problem with Spear of Orome is that it does barely more damage than Orb at four times the mana cost (not mentioning the failing rate and high level). Doubling the damage would be fine (clvl*d8, that's roughly 200 at level 50, same as old Annihilation). Oh wait, isn't that double against evil? Then no it's too powerful... I guess the problem is that Orb is good enough you don't need another "holy orb" spell at high level, unless you want something too powerful. Maybe change the element?
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