HURT_FIRE and HURT_COLD

CunningGabe · June 29, 2011, 23:29

I've been meaning for a while to go through and add HURT_FIRE and HURT_COLD to some monsters. There was some earlier discussion here. I'm trying to be a little stingy with it, because I don't want to make a whole bunch of monsters much easier. Here is what I am planning so far:

Add HURT_FIRE to:
* All molds except the red mold.
* All mushrooms.
* All skeletons except Cantoras. (Edit: removed per suggestions)
* All vampires (except uniques?) (Edit: added)
* All zombies/mummies.
* Cold elementals, vortices, and zephyr hounds.
* Scroll mimics.

Add HURT_COLD to:
* All jellies that aren't currently immune to cold.
* Fire elementals, vortices, and zephyr hounds. (But not plasma ones).
* Potion mimics.
* All reptiles, except Tarrasque (Edit: added)
* All snakes (Edit: added)
* All nagas (Edit2: added)
* All hydras (Edit2: added)

A few notes on things I willfully left out. I think it is best if we don't give HURT_FIRE to every cold-aligned monster (such as dragons) unless that monster is elemental, to keep dragons and wyrms threatening. Similarly, I opted against giving HURT_FIRE to vampires, even though they are corporeal undead, to help distinguish them from skeletons and zombies.

I'm not really satisfied with the number of monsters receiving HURT_COLD compared to HURT_FIRE. There are more creatures with IM_COLD than IM_FIRE (many of them undead), so cold is already less useful than fire. It would be nice to come up with other sensible monsters to give HURT_COLD to, to help even the balance. Alternatively (or additionally), we could decide not to give HURT_FIRE to undead, in which case the balance is not too bad.

Any comments on what I propose above and any additional thoughts/ideas are welcome!

d_m · June 29, 2011, 23:34

Maybe some of the reptiles should get HURT_COLD?

Derakon · June 29, 2011, 23:37

Skeletons shouldn't get HURT_FIRE since bones do a pretty good job of surviving fires as it is. And I agree that giving reptiles HURT_COLD isn't a bad idea. Though we probably shouldn't give the Tarrasque a cold weakness.

jens · June 29, 2011, 23:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derakon

Skeletons shouldn't get HURT_FIRE since bones do a pretty good job of surviving fires as it is. And I agree that giving reptiles HURT_COLD isn't a bad idea. Though we probably shouldn't give the Tarrasque a cold weakness.

Vampires on the other hand burn up quite easily :-)

Nomad · June 30, 2011, 02:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by d_m

Maybe some of the reptiles should get HURT_COLD?

How about nagas and hydras?

Raggy · June 30, 2011, 12:57

white dragons should have HURT_FIRE, and likewise red dragons HURT_COLD

Starhawk · June 30, 2011, 18:35

I agree with skeletons not belonging on the HURT_FIRE list. That doesn't seem to logically follow, nor does it stem from old-school D&D/LOTR tropes.

The various floating-eye monsters could go on the HURT_COLD list. Eyes are mostly big bags of water, it sort-of makes sense that freezing would hurt them a little more than everyone else.

CunningGabe · June 30, 2011, 19:17

Okay, based on responses so far, here are the changes I'm considering:

- Remove HURT_FIRE from skeletons.
- Add HURT_FIRE to vampires.
- Add HURT_COLD to reptiles (except notables like the Tarrasque).
- Add HURT_COLD to snakes.

That makes the lists fairly even. Fire still comes out ahead, in the end (when considering monster resistance as well), but maybe that's okay.

I'm not looking to add any other monsters (again, to avoid weakening a lot of monsters across the board), but if people think something on my list should be replaced with something else, or that something should be removed, let me know.

bulian · July 1, 2011, 14:49

Is a lack of rFire/rCold insufficient? I guess this helps low level mages while not really affecting most other classes, so it seems reasonable to me. I wouldn't put hurt_fire on high end vampires with native depth below DL50.

Other suggestions for hurt_fire -
Hairy animals - wolves and yeti.
Low level liches

What about hurt_acid for regenerating creatures and metal objects, such as trolls, creeping coins, and golems?

Zyphyr · July 1, 2011, 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by bulian

What about hurt_acid for regenerating creatures and metal objects, such as trolls, creeping coins, and golems?

Currently Coins resist acid.

June 29, 2011, 23:29	#1
CunningGabe Swordsman Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 250	HURT_FIRE and HURT_COLD I've been meaning for a while to go through and add HURT_FIRE and HURT_COLD to some monsters. There was some earlier discussion here. I'm trying to be a little stingy with it, because I don't want to make a whole bunch of monsters much easier. Here is what I am planning so far: Add HURT_FIRE to: * All molds except the red mold. * All mushrooms. * All skeletons except Cantoras. (Edit: removed per suggestions) * All vampires (except uniques?) (Edit: added) * All zombies/mummies. * Cold elementals, vortices, and zephyr hounds. * Scroll mimics. Add HURT_COLD to: * All jellies that aren't currently immune to cold. * Fire elementals, vortices, and zephyr hounds. (But not plasma ones). * Potion mimics. * All reptiles, except Tarrasque (Edit: added) * All snakes (Edit: added) * All nagas (Edit2: added) * All hydras (Edit2: added) A few notes on things I willfully left out. I think it is best if we don't give HURT_FIRE to every cold-aligned monster (such as dragons) unless that monster is elemental, to keep dragons and wyrms threatening. Similarly, I opted against giving HURT_FIRE to vampires, even though they are corporeal undead, to help distinguish them from skeletons and zombies. I'm not really satisfied with the number of monsters receiving HURT_COLD compared to HURT_FIRE. There are more creatures with IM_COLD than IM_FIRE (many of them undead), so cold is already less useful than fire. It would be nice to come up with other sensible monsters to give HURT_COLD to, to help even the balance. Alternatively (or additionally), we could decide not to give HURT_FIRE to undead, in which case the balance is not too bad. Any comments on what I propose above and any additional thoughts/ideas are welcome! Last edited by CunningGabe; July 5, 2011 at 02:56. Reason: Made more suggested changes.

June 29, 2011, 23:34	#2
d_m Angband Devteam member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Philadelphia, PA, USA Age: 39 Posts: 1,516	Maybe some of the reptiles should get HURT_COLD? __________________ linux->xterm->screen->pmacs

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June 29, 2011, 23:37	#3
Derakon Prophet Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 8,946	Skeletons shouldn't get HURT_FIRE since bones do a pretty good job of surviving fires as it is. And I agree that giving reptiles HURT_COLD isn't a bad idea. Though we probably shouldn't give the Tarrasque a cold weakness.

June 30, 2011, 12:57	#6
Raggy Apprentice Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 85	white dragons should have HURT_FIRE, and likewise red dragons HURT_COLD

June 30, 2011, 18:35	#7
Starhawk Adept Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Indianapolis IN, USA Posts: 246	I agree with skeletons not belonging on the HURT_FIRE list. That doesn't seem to logically follow, nor does it stem from old-school D&D/LOTR tropes. The various floating-eye monsters could go on the HURT_COLD list. Eyes are mostly big bags of water, it sort-of makes sense that freezing would hurt them a little more than everyone else.

June 30, 2011, 19:17	#8
CunningGabe Swordsman Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 250	Okay, based on responses so far, here are the changes I'm considering: - Remove HURT_FIRE from skeletons. - Add HURT_FIRE to vampires. - Add HURT_COLD to reptiles (except notables like the Tarrasque). - Add HURT_COLD to snakes. That makes the lists fairly even. Fire still comes out ahead, in the end (when considering monster resistance as well), but maybe that's okay. I'm not looking to add any other monsters (again, to avoid weakening a lot of monsters across the board), but if people think something on my list should be replaced with something else, or that something should be removed, let me know.

July 1, 2011, 14:49	#9
bulian Adept Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 162	Is a lack of rFire/rCold insufficient? I guess this helps low level mages while not really affecting most other classes, so it seems reasonable to me. I wouldn't put hurt_fire on high end vampires with native depth below DL50. Other suggestions for hurt_fire - Hairy animals - wolves and yeti. Low level liches What about hurt_acid for regenerating creatures and metal objects, such as trolls, creeping coins, and golems?

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