Blackguards and melee attacks

hein · August 18, 2019, 15:42

Hello,

I just tried playing a Blackguard in 4.2.0.

Is it just me, or do they have much less melee blows/round compared to other classes? I can't really find this described anywhere.

Nick · August 18, 2019, 23:18

Correct. Their effective minimum weapon weight is 10 pounds, the idea being that they can hit things hard, but without any finesse. Their entry in the class help says they prefer heavy weapons.

Madoka · September 14, 2019, 18:07

If any weapon weighing less than 10 lbs is calculated with 10 lbs as their weight, since they prefer killing with heavy weapons, do they have a Heavy Weapon Bonus? Like a 2% weight decrease for weapons > 10 lbs for the blows per round calculation?

PowerWyrm · September 16, 2019, 09:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madoka

If any weapon weighing less than 10 lbs is calculated with 10 lbs as their weight, since they prefer killing with heavy weapons, do they have a Heavy Weapon Bonus? Like a 2% weight decrease for weapons > 10 lbs for the blows per round calculation?

No bonus, but with heavier weapons you get more crits. The class is hard in the early stages (get the heaviest shield you can for better shield bashes), but later on it's on par with warriors.

fph · September 16, 2019, 12:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by PowerWyrm

later on it's on par with warriors.

They still get one fewer attack, though.

Sky · September 16, 2019, 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by fph

They still get one fewer attack, though.

no ....

warriors now get five attacks.

sad face.

Nick · September 16, 2019, 14:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sky

no ....

warriors now get five attacks.

sad face.

Warriors still get 6 attacks.

Pete Mack · September 16, 2019, 15:31

Half troll warriors only get five, realistically. You need a preposterous amount of DEX for six with that combo.

Derakon · September 16, 2019, 17:06

I appreciate the intent of having blackguards not benefit from light weapons the same way other classes do, but the implementation is opaque at best. It relies on tweaking a variable in an obscure formula that is only obliquely presented to the player, in the form of the "to get X blows/round with this weapon you would need Y more STR/DEX" text.

I still say that all classes should use the same blows formula (with the same weight biases), but warriors get +1 blow at clvl25 or so and mages/priests get -1 from the start of the game. If you want blackguards to prefer heavy weapons, then you can always give them an explicit bonus/penalty depending on the weight of their weapon. "You feel that your weapon is insufficiently intimidating" sounds like a good message to use when a blackguard distastefully equips a dagger.

Monkey Face · September 16, 2019, 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derakon

I still say that all classes should use the same blows formula (with the same weight biases), but warriors get +1 blow at clvl25 or so and mages/priests get -1 from the start of the game.

That would be a challenge for a mage or priest that is not strong enough to get more than 1 blow per round and then getting a -1 adjustment so 0 blows per round.

August 18, 2019, 15:42	#1
hein Rookie Join Date: Jul 2015 Posts: 14	Blackguards and melee attacks Hello, I just tried playing a Blackguard in 4.2.0. Is it just me, or do they have much less melee blows/round compared to other classes? I can't really find this described anywhere.

August 18, 2019, 23:18	#2
Nick Vanilla maintainer Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Canberra, Australia Age: 55 Posts: 8,667 Donated: $60	Correct. Their effective minimum weapon weight is 10 pounds, the idea being that they can hit things hard, but without any finesse. Their entry in the class help says they prefer heavy weapons. __________________ One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

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September 14, 2019, 18:07	#3
Madoka Apprentice Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 64	If any weapon weighing less than 10 lbs is calculated with 10 lbs as their weight, since they prefer killing with heavy weapons, do they have a Heavy Weapon Bonus? Like a 2% weight decrease for weapons > 10 lbs for the blows per round calculation?

September 16, 2019, 15:31	#8
Pete Mack Prophet Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 5,996 Donated: $40	Half troll warriors only get five, realistically. You need a preposterous amount of DEX for six with that combo.

September 16, 2019, 17:06	#9
Derakon Prophet Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 9,024	I appreciate the intent of having blackguards not benefit from light weapons the same way other classes do, but the implementation is opaque at best. It relies on tweaking a variable in an obscure formula that is only obliquely presented to the player, in the form of the "to get X blows/round with this weapon you would need Y more STR/DEX" text. I still say that all classes should use the same blows formula (with the same weight biases), but warriors get +1 blow at clvl25 or so and mages/priests get -1 from the start of the game. If you want blackguards to prefer heavy weapons, then you can always give them an explicit bonus/penalty depending on the weight of their weapon. "You feel that your weapon is insufficiently intimidating" sounds like a good message to use when a blackguard distastefully equips a dagger.

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