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Old August 29, 2011, 03:55   #1
Iapetus
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New rings and things?

I love the new vaults (tried the 3.3 ones in the forum and I'm glad the mimic vault is gone it's... uh... not good) but!

I'd like to see some variety in the objects/ego objects. Seeing as I die all the time I get tired of seeing the same stuff all the time. I've been experimenting with some weak trade-off objects. I usually play as warrior, because I'm lazy, so a good ring of the dog (res_fear) is a good pickup early. I'd like to see more similar items. I've toyed with a ring of the snake (res_pois, -1d4 AC, -1 speed) and a few others. Ideally though the randart code could be used to make a decent object with a decent resist and an equal trade off in speed/AC/to-hit/etc. I mean I'd love to see more new items (even if they aren't great but only occasionally useful) but some sort of random, but not overpowering, item generation would make things more interesting IMO.

Anyway love the game been playing for years and years and it's exciting to see development heating up. Thanks all.

Oh... does VULN_HEAT actually do anything?
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Old August 29, 2011, 16:31   #2
fizzix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iapetus View Post
I love the new vaults (tried the 3.3 ones in the forum and I'm glad the mimic vault is gone it's... uh... not good) but!

I'd like to see some variety in the objects/ego objects. Seeing as I die all the time I get tired of seeing the same stuff all the time. I've been experimenting with some weak trade-off objects. I usually play as warrior, because I'm lazy, so a good ring of the dog (res_fear) is a good pickup early. I'd like to see more similar items. I've toyed with a ring of the snake (res_pois, -1d4 AC, -1 speed) and a few others. Ideally though the randart code could be used to make a decent object with a decent resist and an equal trade off in speed/AC/to-hit/etc. I mean I'd love to see more new items (even if they aren't great but only occasionally useful) but some sort of random, but not overpowering, item generation would make things more interesting IMO.

Anyway love the game been playing for years and years and it's exciting to see development heating up. Thanks all.

Oh... does VULN_HEAT actually do anything?
VULN_HEAT does stuff for monsters. I'm not sure if it's activated for player damage. I think it's been shelved mainly because FIRE is so strong that VULN_HEAT will give too large chances for insta-deaths.

More mixed-blessing rings/amulets would be good. Although it's often hard to find a point where you'd use them. For example, for your ring of the snake, you don't need to worry about poison until drolems and AMHDs start showing up. In which case, you usually can find a rpoison ring without drawbacks. So the ring of the snake gets pigeonholed into a very small point of the game where you need rpois but haven't found a source yet.

Speaking of rings, does anyone ever use the non-branding rings anymore? In my games, they have become as elven/speed ring decoys. This is not necessarily a bad thing. But I'm wondering if they could be useful in a way that I haven't realized.
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Old August 29, 2011, 17:10   #3
bulian
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Speaking of rings, does anyone ever use the non-branding rings anymore? In my games, they have become as elven/speed ring decoys. This is not necessarily a bad thing. But I'm wondering if they could be useful in a way that I haven't realized.
I briefly used one as a substitute for !rCold/!rHeat but that is about it. Should non-rods ever recharge and be activate from inventory the ex-branding rings may be useful but currently they are not worth a slot.
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Old August 29, 2011, 18:25   #4
Magnate
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzix View Post
VULN_HEAT does stuff for monsters. I'm not sure if it's activated for player damage. I think it's been shelved mainly because FIRE is so strong that VULN_HEAT will give too large chances for insta-deaths.
Actually VULN_FOO will increase damage by 1/3 from foo attacks ... but there aren't any objects which give vulnerabilities, yet.

Monsters have HURT_FOO instead, which increases damage they suffer from foo attacks from the player, but this is currently only implemented for HURT_LIGHT and HURT_ROCK. The implementation of HURT_FIRE and HURT_COLD will be coming soon.
Quote:
More mixed-blessing rings/amulets would be good. Although it's often hard to find a point where you'd use them. For example, for your ring of the snake, you don't need to worry about poison until drolems and AMHDs start showing up. In which case, you usually can find a rpoison ring without drawbacks. So the ring of the snake gets pigeonholed into a very small point of the game where you need rpois but haven't found a source yet.
I think you have neatly explained why more mixed-blessing jewelry would simply add junk. We are still striving to make the first lot (cat/dog/mouse/escaping) useful. It's very very hard to balance stuff that has drawbacks - either the drawback renders it useless, or it's too good.
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Old August 29, 2011, 18:47   #5
bron
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Originally Posted by fizzix View Post
does anyone ever use the non-branding rings anymore?
As bulian said, they are still useful for temporary resistance. Especially the Lightning ring, since I don't think there is any other way for a warrior or a priest to double-resist electrical attacks (other than finding Colluin). Particularly since you don't have to leave them on: switch them in, activate them, and switch back. I actually carried a couple of them (Flames, Lightning) at various times in the recent ironman warrior competition (until I found Colluin anyway).
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Old August 29, 2011, 19:18   #6
Derakon
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We are still striving to make the first lot (cat/dog/mouse/escaping) useful. It's very very hard to balance stuff that has drawbacks - either the drawback renders it useless, or it's too good.
IMO the current Dog and Reckless Attacks are pretty decently balanced -- they give those all-important melee boosts that young combat characters want so badly, but they have serious drawbacks too. I don't have a good feel for Escaping, Mouse has always been useless to me, and I don't think I've encountered Cat yet (new in 3.3?).
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Old August 29, 2011, 23:06   #7
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We are still striving to make the first lot (cat/dog/mouse/escaping) useful. It's very very hard to balance stuff that has drawbacks - either the drawback renders it useless, or it's too good.
I think they're actually pretty good. Mouse is useful if you do damage mainly by archery or spells. Dog is good if your stealth is already terrible. Reckless attacks is a little harsh now because of the importance of AC. It hasn't been scaled with AC importance, so I'd recommend softening the AC penalty a smidgeon. Escaping is very good if you don't melee. People think escaping is a cheese, but I don't. What I might do is put random teleportation on escaping and remove =teleport. I also would propose removing +dam and -AC from dog, to distinguish is from reckless attacks. I think all these are situationally useful as is though.
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Old August 29, 2011, 23:43   #8
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I think you have neatly explained why more mixed-blessing jewelry would simply add junk. We are still striving to make the first lot (cat/dog/mouse/escaping) useful. It's very very hard to balance stuff that has drawbacks - either the drawback renders it useless, or it's too good.
Bear in mind every item is a mixed-blessing item - because of the opportunity cost; it means you're not using the slot for anything else

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Old August 30, 2011, 02:45   #9
Timo Pietilš
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Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
IMO the current Dog and Reckless Attacks are pretty decently balanced -- they give those all-important melee boosts that young combat characters want so badly, but they have serious drawbacks too. I don't have a good feel for Escaping, Mouse has always been useless to me, and I don't think I've encountered Cat yet (new in 3.3?).
I have used Mouse with all of my warriors in 3.2 dev versions to 3.3. There seem to be always a short period of time when extra blows from DEX they provide exceeds the damage penalty with wide enough margin that Dog or Reckless Attacks can't compete. Also stealth-bonus makes it desirable even when difference is slightly in favor of Dog or Reckless Attacks.

I haven't seen Cat either, perhaps it is 3.4 thing.
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Old August 30, 2011, 04:13   #10
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I haven't seen Cat either, perhaps it is 3.4 thing.
Cats are not members of the chinese zodiac. They were late to the party.

I wonder what a 'ring of the cow' would be.
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