Comp 219 - Page 3

Sky · December 10, 2018, 18:23

I suggested a 4th form to differentiate between low-level combat forms (no bonus speed or blows, basically good to tank ologs) and high level, uniques-ripping combat form. Otherwise you risk a all-or-nothing character who cant do anything until hitting a specific CL.

Also, i do support the druids inability to access his equipment, needing to commit to a specific form (or lose an action; changing from one form to another in 1 turn could be possible). This demands more power from the shapeshift.

Im ok allowing maybe spellcasting; maybe only in higher forms? It does shuft the balance substantially though.

Nick · December 10, 2018, 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sky

1st available form: a retreat/panic form. Something whose main purpose is to GTFO.
Lets name it Fox Form, +3 Stealth, +5 Spd. Some combat penalty.
Why not A: cover tracks.

2nd form: a tank form, lets call it BearForm. +AC +CON. Normal melee, maybe pStun. Maybe slight +hit. A: roar (cone of fear)

3rd form: a combat form, let's call it .. idk, Treant?? +AC +blows +hit +dmg. pBlind pStun FA.
A: AoE melee

4th and final: Dragon Form. Breath, immunities, +Spd, general badassness.

So you have a character which is both a decent healer (as paladin) and foghter (as warrior or even better) BUT must shift between the two, losing an action.

That's your druid class.

Im not sure if right now switching between form and human takes time - if it doesn't, it should.

Interesting. The current forms are

fox - principally stealth/escape
pukel-man - this is the tank, with +CON, +STR, -SPD, sustains and damage reduction (every blow does 10 less damage)
bear - this is the combat form, but probably needs some work
eagle - gets pConf, pBlind, FA, SI, pFear, big boost to movement speed, and can fly over traps - meant to be for quick movement (raiding vaults, etc) but the no pickup rule hurts it

And currently yes, changing takes a turn in both directions.

Derakon · December 10, 2018, 20:33

My suggestion was predicated on the assumption that you'd basically never be out of a shapeshifted form, but you'd need to pick which form to use wisely (and spend a turn shapeshifting, yes). That's why I suggested that unshifted druids be basically terrible -- with the implication that you're still terrible at everything else when you're in a form that's good at one thing. But if the game is balanced around you always being shifted, you can have access to your basic commands and spellcasting when shifted.

I can see there being a fourth form that's good at several things, as a reward for making it to high level. Kind of the equivalent of mages getting Banishment or priests getting Banish Evil.

Nick: what kinds of scenarios do you envisage the pukelman being used vs. the bear? I feel like there's a lot of overlap between tank and melee combat.

bron · December 10, 2018, 20:59

I never got the hang of the shape-shifting business, and found the whole process annoying. My comp character basically never used those abilities. But the Druid does get (up to) 5 blows / round, which is pretty good, and Meteor and Rift, which are great, so I didn't feel like the character was underpowered.

Voovus · December 11, 2018, 16:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick

And currently yes, changing takes a turn in both directions.

Please check this. De-shapeshifting appears to be free.

Nick · December 11, 2018, 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voovus

Please check this. De-shapeshifting appears to be free.

Checked - and you're right

wobbly · December 26, 2018, 07:50

So playing a bit & something I'm finding a real hassle with fox form is the str drop & encumbrance. The issue is I don't know how much free weight I need to keep & once in fox form I need to change back to drop items. Not sure what's best here, either the game needs to communicate how much carrying capacity you lose or it needs to be clearer what the exact relationship between str & carrying capacity is.

Thraalbee · December 26, 2018, 10:39

So far I've used shapeshift only to reduce my turn count. Fox form is 2x faster so even slowed at -2 you are walking nearly twice as fast. Eagle form is the fastest, not sure if it was 3x or not, but hasted at speed 20 or so plus eagle form makes a huge difference.

wobbly · December 27, 2018, 02:10

Had a crash taking the down stairs to dlvl 21. Nothing much I can think of to add. Whichever build is on angband.live

Nick · December 27, 2018, 02:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by wobbly

Had a crash taking the down stairs to dlvl 21. Nothing much I can think of to add. Whichever build is on angband.live

I think angband.live has the pre-run-bug build (212), which has a level generation crash bug; the latest build (217) has neither bug. I think.

December 10, 2018, 18:23	#21
Sky Veteran Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: London-ish Age: 50 Posts: 2,160	I suggested a 4th form to differentiate between low-level combat forms (no bonus speed or blows, basically good to tank ologs) and high level, uniques-ripping combat form. Otherwise you risk a all-or-nothing character who cant do anything until hitting a specific CL. Also, i do support the druids inability to access his equipment, needing to commit to a specific form (or lose an action; changing from one form to another in 1 turn could be possible). This demands more power from the shapeshift. Im ok allowing maybe spellcasting; maybe only in higher forms? It does shuft the balance substantially though. __________________ "i can take this dracolich"

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December 10, 2018, 20:33	#23
Derakon Prophet Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 9,022	My suggestion was predicated on the assumption that you'd basically never be out of a shapeshifted form, but you'd need to pick which form to use wisely (and spend a turn shapeshifting, yes). That's why I suggested that unshifted druids be basically terrible -- with the implication that you're still terrible at everything else when you're in a form that's good at one thing. But if the game is balanced around you always being shifted, you can have access to your basic commands and spellcasting when shifted. I can see there being a fourth form that's good at several things, as a reward for making it to high level. Kind of the equivalent of mages getting Banishment or priests getting Banish Evil. Nick: what kinds of scenarios do you envisage the pukelman being used vs. the bear? I feel like there's a lot of overlap between tank and melee combat.

December 10, 2018, 20:59	#24
bron Knight Join Date: May 2008 Location: Saratoga, California (in the midst of Silicon Valley) Posts: 515	I never got the hang of the shape-shifting business, and found the whole process annoying. My comp character basically never used those abilities. But the Druid does get (up to) 5 blows / round, which is pretty good, and Meteor and Rift, which are great, so I didn't feel like the character was underpowered.

December 26, 2018, 07:50	#27
wobbly Prophet Join Date: May 2012 Location: Adelaide, Australia Posts: 2,614	So playing a bit & something I'm finding a real hassle with fox form is the str drop & encumbrance. The issue is I don't know how much free weight I need to keep & once in fox form I need to change back to drop items. Not sure what's best here, either the game needs to communicate how much carrying capacity you lose or it needs to be clearer what the exact relationship between str & carrying capacity is.

December 26, 2018, 10:39	#28
Thraalbee Knight Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Stockholm Posts: 701	So far I've used shapeshift only to reduce my turn count. Fox form is 2x faster so even slowed at -2 you are walking nearly twice as fast. Eagle form is the fastest, not sure if it was 3x or not, but hasted at speed 20 or so plus eagle form makes a huge difference.

December 27, 2018, 02:10	#29
wobbly Prophet Join Date: May 2012 Location: Adelaide, Australia Posts: 2,614	Had a crash taking the down stairs to dlvl 21. Nothing much I can think of to add. Whichever build is on angband.live

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